Best backup practice using 2 NAS for mainly multimedia & photos

Currently reading
Best backup practice using 2 NAS for mainly multimedia & photos

170
24
NAS
DS1621+, DS1621+, DS918
Operating system
  1. Windows
Mobile operating system
  1. Android
Sorry for posting a new thread. I am obviously a little confused by Snapshots. So again I am kindly asking for advice. Thank you in advance!

I am trying to establish whats the best practice for back ups using 2 nas, both BTRFS capable and running DSM 7.1 and have SHR1 volumes.

The Source nas is mainly being used for multimedia (movies, photos, etc) Synology photos backing up family phones pictures. Movies and TV for local streaming. Docker running a couple containers. And is a general storage point on my LAN where downloads go like apps, iso, pdf, etc. I am also using ABB to backup a couple HDDs of PCs on the LAN. (I am sure more, but thats all I can remember right now)

This Destination nas is empty at this point, also running BTRFS SHR1 volume.

Essentially I have more data that does not change once stored, movies/tv and pictures and videos from phones. Once its on the source nas, those things do not change, in that I mean pictures from 2019 will never change, they are static. Movies stored do not change, they are static. And thats the bulk of the data stored on the source nas.

What is the smartest way to backup when you have 2 nas's on your LAN? There is snapshots, hyperbackup, versioning, etc. I want to make sure I have a backup in the event of ransomware or data corruption. On another third nas I am using weekly scheduled folder sync currently to backup the source nas, and in another topic, it was mentioned as not being the correct method or least not the method that user would have used. That is why I am asking here. To be clear, I am unsure if the 3rd nas with the scheduled shared folder sync will stay in this backup strategy? as I am not sure I need 2 destination nas's to backup 1 source nas, but I have not decided yet.
 
Solution
What is the smartest way to backup when you have 2 nas's on your LAN?
If you 2nd nas is just to provide disaster backup/restore scenarios, then you can maybe use it in the following matter (in a combination with NAS1).

Use Hyper Backup to weekly/daily (or what fits your needs), transfer static content from 1>2 and have it as an archive on nas2.

On top of this, also use HB in a separate task, to backup your dynamic content from 1>2 as this might include crucial data that also needs to be backed up.

While that is happening, use Snapshot replication on NAS1 to snap dynamic shared folders (and important ones) to have them as a quick, read-only repository in case you get hit by ransomware...
What is the smartest way to backup when you have 2 nas's on your LAN?
If you 2nd nas is just to provide disaster backup/restore scenarios, then you can maybe use it in the following matter (in a combination with NAS1).

Use Hyper Backup to weekly/daily (or what fits your needs), transfer static content from 1>2 and have it as an archive on nas2.

On top of this, also use HB in a separate task, to backup your dynamic content from 1>2 as this might include crucial data that also needs to be backed up.

While that is happening, use Snapshot replication on NAS1 to snap dynamic shared folders (and important ones) to have them as a quick, read-only repository in case you get hit by ransomware and your weekly HB did not cover all the data in the last backup job (lets say the weekly schedule task didn't happen already). Snaps can be configured up to 5 min apart with number of versions that fit your needs.

Might suggest using lets say snap every 15-30 min with 2 versions running. This will give you enough time to replace hot data in case something hits your NAS.

HB tasks can be daily instead of weekly ofc, but that will depend on your data change on the primary location and how often you do want backups to be executed.

You mentioned that you have a 3rd nas as well. You can also set up concurrent HB tasks that will backup static data to from 1 > 3 as it does from 1 > 2, or you could use snapshot replication to create a replication task from 1 > 3 for crucial data. This way, you will have local nas 1 snaps as well as nas 1 data via replication task on nas 3. This would be also another quick way to get to your data from another NAS as well as it can take control of that NAS1 data in case of a total disaster (depending what you will ship off from 1>3 and how much space is required).

With multiple NAS you do have multiple options, but a few HB tasks and 1-2 snaps (local and/or remote) would do the trick covering all your static and dynamic needs.

Also, consider to not backup repeatable content that you can get your hands on again to save space and to not needlessly stress the drives with copy transfers.
 
Upvote 1
Solution
Ok thanks! I am in the process of setting up individual tasks for each shared folder in hyperbackup... My next step will be to look into and learn snapshots.

Does Hyperbackup re-do existing backups that have not changed from the last scheduled run? so if I set HB once a week and lets say its task is created with 5 shared folders, and only folder 5 has changed from its last run, does it re-run (re-copy) folders 1-4 or only update folder 5?
 
Upvote 0
Might suggest using lets say snap every 15-30 min with 2 versions running. This will give you enough time to replace hot data in case something hits your NAS.
Ok... forgive the ignorance, and thank you for taking the time to reply... I appreciate it.

I setup snapshots for all my folders on all my nas devices with the default retention rules
1653716316422.png


These are obviously kept on each device? and take only a second or two to complete. But based on that picture I should have the ability to restore any file within any folder for up to 1 year (after that time elapses of course) but like from today on, a snapshot will be taken daily, and each day kept for a week (7 days), up to 2 weeks at a time, 1 for the month and 1 for the year...? right?

the replication I am guessing copies data to a destination nas? so that is doing what hyperbackup is doing too?
1653716810600.png

I am also assuming that once the core data is there, it then makes local snapshots like in the previous step? or does it again re-copy the data from source to destination each time its scheduled to run?

The replication makes sense for the homes folder with pictures (in my case) maybe not so much for movies and stuff. I am trying to wrap my head around all this, being a windows users with no linux experience, a backup was always an external hdd - thats it. All this fancy stuff super cool and very overwhelming.
 
Upvote 0
does it re-run (re-copy) folders 1-4 or only update folder 5?
It will do delta backup comparing your current state of the backup task with the destination content. So yes, it will just copy the difference.

These are obviously kept on each device? and take only a second or two to complete. But based on that picture I should have the ability to restore any file within any folder for up to 1 year (after that time elapses of course) but like from today on, a snapshot will be taken daily, and each day kept for a week (7 days), up to 2 weeks at a time, 1 for the month and 1 for the year...? right?
This is a classic grandfather-father-son timetable. You should have multiple points from where you will be able to restore your data by looking at this version's rules.

the replication I am guessing copies data to a destination nas? so that is doing what hyperbackup is doing too?
Correct. But, replication and HB are 2 separate backup tools that work a bit differently and are targeted for different types of disaster recovery scenarios. SR is faster and allows for a continuous workflow even if your primary nas goes down. With HB, you would 1st have to restore data in order to be able to use it again. That's the main difference, but, yes, both are backup tools.

I am also assuming that once the core data is there, it then makes local snapshots like in the previous step? or does it again re-copy the data from source to destination each time its scheduled to run?
It will do a replication task again from source to destination and it will only transfer the delta, so only what has changed. That way, you will have a small snap of the new state.

The replication makes sense for the homes folder with pictures (in my case) maybe not so much for movies and stuff
Do note that while you can snapshot the home(s) folder, you will not be able to perform a switchover or failover replication task on that particular folder. You will be able to access the read-only data on the replication target NAS device. This is in case you want to continue to use your homes folder on your destination device while you make repairs on the main one. Just fyi.
 
Upvote 0
@Rusty Is ABB the best method for backing up Windows pc's with additional hdd's attached, I have a HTPC with 4 or 5 additional 4tb drives with stuff that is not on the nas. Apparently there is no Rsync app for windows (shocking tbh) at least none that I found, only the ability to install WSL and Ubuntu with command line, and I quickly gave up trying to figure out the Rsync command line syntax of mapping each attached windows drive, then the folder name, and those folders within, to copy to the network nas which always asked for a PW even if I enabled guest write access to the folder...
 
Upvote 0
ABB the best method for backing up Windows pc's with additional hdd's attached
ATM from Syno side it is the only package that has that feature, yes. Is it the best? Depends who you ask. Some use 3rd party platforms like Veeam to perform lan device backups, as one example.
 
Upvote 0
What do YOU use? :D
To start, I don’t use Windows, so that’s that.

Waiting for ABB to support macos and in the meantime I use TimeMachine, and Acronis for my endpoint backup but all the content lives on the nas so have no real need to backup my macs anyway
 
Upvote 0
Ok, Hyperbackup doesn't like me! I separated my several shared folders into individual tasks. I think 5 or 6 in total tasks, most with 1 shared folder which inside those are many folders and files. 1 task is docker and proxmox iso and proxmox shares combined. All backing up 1gbe LAN so slowly.

I am getting fails left and right. 1 folder for my docker combo folder fails in <10 mins. My junk folder where all misc downloads and files go (its big, I'll admit) fails after a while. so far I'm 50%, 2 successful and 2 fails...?
New Project.jpg
 
Upvote 0
Try and have a look inside var/log/messages for any more details on the errors. Maybe you will get some more insight from there what the actual problem is.
Man that messages file is a hodge podge of information. 🤯

I just started a failed one again, to try and isolate the exact error.... I am a little lost in that file log, its all over the place.



Code:
2022-05-29T15:22:03-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) service_wrapper.cpp:79 failed to start backup service
2022-05-29T15:22:03-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:1974 Failed to start backup task errno:1
2022-05-29T15:22:08-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [info] snapshot.cpp:182 remove share [Public_NAS] backup snapshot [GMT-05-2022.05.29-09.15.43]
2022-05-29T15:22:08-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:2571 failed to start task
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [err] backup_progress.cpp:466 Backup task [To TARGETNAS Public] completes with result [3]. Time spent: [21987 sec].
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [err] backup_progress.cpp:481 Total Size(Bytes):[1517978038440], Modified Size(Bytes):[1517978038440], Total Directory:[5511], Modified Directory:[5511], Total File:[144345], Modified File:[144345],
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:2314 Storage Statistics: TargetSize(KB):[0], LastBackupTargetSize(KB):[0], SourceSize(KB):[0], TotalFile:[0], ModifyFile:[0], NewFile:[0], UnchangeFile:[0], RemoveFile:[0], RenameFile:[0], RenameLogicSize(Bytes):[0], CopyFile:[0], CopyLogicSize(Bytes):[0], CopyMissFile:[0], CopyMissFileLogicSize(Bytes):[0]

As far as I can tell, thats the error? (until the next one completes or fails) Theres even some lines with me external IP? Not sure why?
 
Upvote 0
Man that messages file is a hodge podge of information. 🤯

I just started a failed one again, to try and isolate the exact error.... I am a little lost in that file log, its all over the place.



Code:
2022-05-29T15:22:03-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) service_wrapper.cpp:79 failed to start backup service
2022-05-29T15:22:03-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:1974 Failed to start backup task errno:1
2022-05-29T15:22:08-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [info] snapshot.cpp:182 remove share [Public_NAS] backup snapshot [GMT-05-2022.05.29-09.15.43]
2022-05-29T15:22:08-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:2571 failed to start task
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [err] backup_progress.cpp:466 Backup task [To TARGETNAS Public] completes with result [3]. Time spent: [21987 sec].
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: (16758) [err] backup_progress.cpp:481 Total Size(Bytes):[1517978038440], Modified Size(Bytes):[1517978038440], Total Directory:[5511], Modified Directory:[5511], Total File:[144345], Modified File:[144345],
2022-05-29T15:22:09-05:00 SOURCENAS img_backup[16758]: [16758]img_backup.cpp:2314 Storage Statistics: TargetSize(KB):[0], LastBackupTargetSize(KB):[0], SourceSize(KB):[0], TotalFile:[0], ModifyFile:[0], NewFile:[0], UnchangeFile:[0], RemoveFile:[0], RenameFile:[0], RenameLogicSize(Bytes):[0], CopyFile:[0], CopyLogicSize(Bytes):[0], CopyMissFile:[0], CopyMissFileLogicSize(Bytes):[0]

As far as I can tell, thats the error? (until the next one completes or fails) Theres even some lines with me external IP? Not sure why?
Yeah not really info that will give you the needed info i’m afraid.
 
Upvote 0
Last edited:
Well after failing a few times, and restarting the failed tasks, they finally show all completed and successful. I have a total of 10 tasks in HB on source. HB Vault on Destination set for 1 concurrent operation at a time, so I was able to see it tries to finish any currently running task before starting the next task, which waits its turn to be run. Vault shows the data is there, the integrity schedule is also set for each task (I have not seen any notifications for completion or failure? so not 100% sure about the integrity check). I tried to spread out all these task schedules since it took several days to complete (or fail for that matter). But I think any run after now will run faster since the bulk of data has been transferred and only updates and changes will be transferred now.

Question about snapshots. Having the snapshots on the source nas is probably not the accepted way of using them right? I should also run snapshot replication to a destination nas? Since replication copies the data from source to target, I will need at least double the space on the destination right? It doesnt work in connection with the HB data thats already on the destination nas?

Personal thoughts for a second: Thanks for taking to time stepping me through this @Rusty . When this started for me about a year ago, I considered the raid a backup, which I was wrong and I know that now. Backing up data is expensive and requires more storage than I thought. Having 10tb of data requires 20tb to backup (HB and snapshot replication), plus 2 or more devices (nas's). I am not sorry I started this, but I can bet a lot of people don't put pencil to paper on that fact when they start out just like I didn't.
-- post merged: --

The OP asked about backing up content from one NAS to another NAS

The free version of Veeam for Windows cannot do that AFAIK.
I think @Walter was talking about my question regarding backing up a windows htpc since rsync doesnt seem to exist for windows, I asked if ABB would be an acceptable solution. I have been playing with ABB since its included and the interface is pretty nice, but I have never restored anything, I should probably experiment with restoring before making a judgement.

@Walter I did see Veeam but I have had my focus on trying to get Hyperback working as I have had nothing but failure until now. And even now, having made 10 tasks, it took multiple runs to finally get it to report success and I am still not sure the data is safe, I am just assuming it is. Are you using Veeam to backup windows shares to a nas? I would love to hear your experience.
 
Upvote 0
OK, I missed that. I use Veeam as well. But be careful as there are reports of incompatibility with Synology resulting in corrupted backups.

Macrium Reflect Free is another fine program for Win PC backup.
Again, I have not done a restore with ABB and if I'm being honest, I will be disappointed if it doesn't work because I really like the way works... But thank you for the advice. I used Macrium to clone my older smaller hdds in that Win10 to the new larger 4tb drives last year and that was painless, I had forgotten about Macrium until you mentioned it.
 
Upvote 0
Having the snapshots on the source nas is probably not the accepted way of using them right? I should also run snapshot replication to a destination nas?
Ofc it is, you just have to be aware that local snaps are not to be classified as backups considering they live on the same location as the actual data. Still, saying this, they will be the fastest way possible to restore from a accidental deletions, ransomware attacked and the likes in case that your NAS is not affected by and HW problems in any way.

So using local snaps is great if it all works as intended, but you get data problem that can be recovered from the actual snaps.

Replication would be in this case a proper backup.

Since replication copies the data from source to target, I will need at least double the space on the destination right?
It will deduplicate the data and ofc copy only delta so not double but you will have to have space close to your original space + for the versions (if you are making them)

It doesnt work in connection with the HB data thats already on the destination nas?
No, these are separate elements and data will be backed up by SR and HB separately.

When this started for me about a year ago, I considered the raid a backup, which I was wrong and I know that now. Backing up data is expensive and requires more storage than I thought. Having 10tb of data requires 20tb to backup (HB and snapshot replication), plus 2 or more devices (nas's). I am not sorry I started this, but I can bet a lot of people don't put pencil to paper on that fact when they start out just like I didn't.
Well the thing about backup is that you should not need it, but it is priceless when you do. Increasing the number or restore points, locations, and media that you can restore from, will give you a peace of mind but also make you spend more $. That's a fact but it comes down how much you value your data, noting more.
 
Upvote 0
Are you using Veeam to backup windows shares to a nas? I would love to hear your experience.
On one site I use Veeam to backup all PCs for more than five years, on one site I use ABB since about one year. Never had a single problem with both solutions, backups and restores were flawless. ABB has more options (at least compared to the free version of Veeam) and you can configure it on your Synology, however Veeam will run with more types of backup targets, no need for a Synology NAS.
 
Upvote 0

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

  • Question
I have just picked out a memory stick and tried creating new folders on Mac and Windows machines. The file...
Replies
5
Views
5,600
  • Question
@dslamguy Hey David, perhaps the amount of questions I asked was a bit overwhelming, but could you please...
Replies
9
Views
2,408
  • Question
Thanks. Comments really help understand the risk and steps. I'll have NAS2 as local hyper back up to, and...
Replies
5
Views
3,617
It is but it doesn't support hyper-v with Windows 10 as a host - found it the hard way. I also tried to...
Replies
4
Views
2,192
I'm a software architect, semi-retired into IT in a commercial Win environment. I have been using Veeam...
Replies
10
Views
24,163
Depending on how exactly you want to be able to view previous versions, you could use the File History...
Replies
20
Views
3,387
So this is a Win10 machine? I use Macrium Reflect for drive cloning.
Replies
1
Views
1,880

Welcome to SynoForum.com!

SynoForum.com is an unofficial Synology forum for NAS owners and enthusiasts.

Registration is free, easy and fast!

Trending threads

Back
Top