Critique my backup structure...

[NAS Newbie]

when you will keep gold rule “don’t store any critical data primary on your desktop clients”, you will get multiple advantages:

Is this comment in regards to something you see me doing wrong with my current setup, or more of a general comment contributing information to the thread? My goal is to store all data on the NAS and only keep local data for projects I am working on such as an engineering analysis.

 

[jeyare]

take it as kind of support for your steps

 

[NAS Newbie]

ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

I believe you have mentioned in the past that you are a big fan of acronis desktop. I am considering using Acronis for my laptop backups instead of ab4b just because I want to try and cut down how many individual programs I need to run for a complete system solution. If it was just my stuff I'd probably stick with ab4b, but when I'm trying to train my dad in on syno stuff, it might be beneficial to cut down the program list. Aside from cost, are there any reasons I would not want to purse acronis desktop instead of ab4b in my situation?

 

[jeyare]

when you will prepare perfect setup of all necessary components for AB4B you will get automated services at client side for all computer beginners and also old parents (one of my case in parent site). You don’t need their attention or actions. This is my setup. Just an initial client side installation.

I have single license for the ATI just for a special purposes (some kind of data rescue, disk wipe in advanced security levels). All my Win based devices use AB4B only.
2x year I have test of Restore. Works perfect.
Waiting for same in my Linux enviro. Then I will switch off ReaR.

Yeap AB4B need some improvements. But it’s for another thread.
When you will track my Threads with AB4B you will find some ideas.

 

[NAS Newbie]

ok, thanks. I believe Rusty was saying I should just stick with ab4b as well, and that is probably what I'll end up doing. I was under the impression you were only using acronis for your computer backups, and didn't realize you were still using ab4b there.

-- post merged: 9. Jan 2021 --

2x year I have test of Restore. Works perfect.

Out of curiosity, how do you test your restore process? Do you just create a file, back everything up, then change the file again and run a restore and see which version of the file you end up with, or is it more in-depth?

-- post merged: 9. Jan 2021 --

Also, I do have another question. I was looking around for sources comparing all the different Syno backup solutions to try and understand them better. I came across this post:

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In it, the author writes:

• Snapshots themselves seem really great. But obviously aren't for redundancy, their simply a rollback mechanism.
• Snapshot Replication is simply a fast means of making a mirrored copy.

Which leads me to question if SR is sufficient as the only backup link to my offsite NAS. Does a snapshot replicated offsite create a redundant copy, or is it somehow less robust than that and I should still be using Hyperbackup? Was the redditor correct or did they not have a good understanding of SR? Just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

 

[jeyare]

to be sure, I don’t take statement from Redit as “one and only” true. Many times unskilled person write his/her assumptions based on insufficient experiences or test of real situations. Last time mentioned problem with “Drive off-line” in this forum.

Re Restore training or testing. It’s simple. You need time and passion to do it and also knowledge what you do. Then you need just:
- USB stick with bootloader for restore from your NAS
- 30 minutes for single computer (when you keep the golden rule, mentioned above).
Second part of the test is partial Restore of specific files directly from Browser. Works.
So it’s up to you how is old your last snapshot. For some computers I have daily, for some weekly.

ATI: I don’t use ATI for backup of my computers from 2019. Don’t need it. Everything works fine with AB4B. Just one time per week check the AB4B console.

You definitely can forget for Backup like Windows File History or Windows backup.
And I can’t see an added value of Drive Backup usage. When you have Gold rule in your mind, you don’t need backup of your data by Drive Backup.
Then you don’t need snapshot your Home folder. When you have automated sync based on Syno Drive ShareSync. This is one of best disaster recovery strategy for your Drive data = you can immediately switch Drive operation from the second NAS (my standard setup for each sites).

 

[NAS Newbie]

I certainly am not taking the reddit comment at face value. However, I'm trying to better understand exactly what each package brings to the table, and so when I saw the comment about SR not being a means of redundancy, then I started to wonder if my setup was not as good as I thought it might be. When I was looking through the snapshots that got created, it appeared all my data was in there, so I was wondering if I was missing something. I just want to make sure that my offsite snapshots using SR are robust enough for a complete system restore in the event my house burns down with my onsite NAS in it.

 

[jeyare]

make the restore test
it will show you weakness in better way than discussion only
and it will increase your knowledge also
practice, practice

 

[Rusty]

I saw the comment about SR not being a means of redundancy

It's not, it's a backup solution when you include a replication in the story. Whoever wrote that needs to read a bit more, not to mention test their theory 1st.

 

[jeyare]

absolutely right
you can’t cut some ideas from unclear background, then take the conclusion as one and only truth.
Every useful backup and restore policy must be tailored to precise defined target and operation needs. And testing.

Then you need time, time and again time for the testing. Only real results matter.

 

[NAS Newbie]

It's not, it's a backup solution when you include a replication in the story. Whoever wrote that needs to read a bit more, not to mention test their theory 1st.

Just to clarify:
-snapshot to same pool/raid array for purposes of iterative saves is not backup due to possibility of entire pool failing/being corrupted
-replicate to 2nd pool and/or offsite pool is backup

Are those accurate statements?

 

[Rusty]

Just to clarify:
-snapshot to same pool/raid array for purposes of iterative saves is not backup due to possibility of entire pool failing/being corrupted
-replicate to 2nd pool and/or offsite pool is backup

Are those accurate statements?

Yes. on-site (same nas) snap can be useful as the fastest “backup” solution or a ransomware solution but true, if your whole nas or volume is compromised, your are in trouble.

Remote backup is what will be a proper backup if your main nas/copy is in trouble. Weather you will use HB, acronis, SR or anything else, is up to you and your end game plan.

 

[jeyare]

There is also another extended way how to backup of AB4B data from primary store to another NAS (standard rsync DSM task between two NFS). It is crazy, but proven method.
When your Primary NAS store will disappear, you can use feature "Relink Shared folder" which contains these synced data for the new AB4B enviro (another or new NAS).

 

[gemic]

hello everyone!

i ve gone through the thread and several other in order to check what is the story with retention between ABB and HB but could not find it...

In my particular case i want to use a high capacity SSD ( volume 1) to keep daily ABB of my pc but i dont want to keep all versions which will fill up the drive eventually.

On the same NAS i have a volume 2 on HDDs where i am thinking to backup the ABB folder using Hyper Backup every some days
(i only have one NAS so snapshot replication is probably not the solution)

So the question is: Do i setup the retention policy of ABB to keep only 1 or 2 and then configure HB to keep more versions (thus keeping all versions that ABB will discard after rotation)?

As Rusty suggested in many posts i ll check how HB behaves in restoring ABB folder but does anyone see a problem with this plan? Could it be that HB will not be able to properly backup and retain all the individual versions?

 

[Rusty]

So the question is: Do i setup the retention policy of ABB to keep only 1 or 2 and then configure HB to keep more versions (thus keeping all versions that ABB will discard after rotation)?

I would still advise NOT to use HB as a backup tool for your ABB (of any kind) configuration. It has been confirmed by Syno that S&R is a tool to have a complete and functional restore when it comes to ABB content.

Saying this you can still utilize Snapshot and replication package because the replication part of it can be both local and remote. In case of local replication, you will be able to choose a second volume (that you have in your case) and still maintain retention and version policies, schedules etc.

There is really no reason to involve HB in this.

Also, to answer your initial question, yes you can just minimize the number of ABB versions for your PC to avoid having a large number of delta backups and in return lose more space.

All in all, ABB backup with SR backup to a second volume, should work just fine.

 

[fredbert]

Also, to answer your initial question, yes you can just minimize the number of ABB versions for your PC to avoid having a large number of delta backups and in return lose more space.

Correct. This is my default template (see attached):

• Last 7 days
• Last 4 weeks
• Last 12 months
• Last 3 years

Which makes 26 versions, plus the current day's working versions every time my PC screen locks (but these get removed and only the last one is retained).

To ensure that there is no chance of losing all versions if backups stop then I've locked the first version [via task's Version window].

Unless there's some high data churn on a PC (gaming?, temp files) then the biggest storage hit will be from the initial backup. I've four Win 10 PC with mostly 256GB SSD and since last Nov the ABB storage has plateaued to around 2TB real (4TB-ish without de-dup.). They are all on between 13-18 versions.

 

[gemic]

Thanks for the info!

I was mainly led by the synology video: youtube.com/watch?v=-PhFzmba6Dg saying that HB is for local storage and SR for remote. I will take Rusty's word for it and start using the SR. (i just received the unit and boy am i excited to start tinkering!!)

@fredbert thank you for the providing the screenshot. Is this from the ABB application or from Snapshot Replication? As i mentioned i have a "special requirement": I want ABB to keep only a few versions for 2-3 days that are stored on the SSD and do not have the HDDs rumbling all the time. And then I will use the SR to offload (copy) these versions to the HDDs as snapshots, before the ABB rotation deletes them...

lets see if it can work...

 

[fredbert]

the screenshot. Is this from the ABB application or from Snapshot Replication?

It's ABB and shows the default template I have for PCs. The Snapshot Replication has more retention options. But you'll see a pattern for my ABB shared folder settings My /homes folder has 2-hourly snapshots as that data is changing more during the day. Each Shared Folder has it's own settings, and whether or not to do snapshots.

Just ran 'Calculate Size' on the ABB shared folder (2.3TB): it has 14 snapshots and the size is estimated at 400GB. Now compare that to my /homes (556GB): 25 snapshots estimated at 11GB.

I know that one person's PC is used a lot for gaming and this generates over half of the 1.1TB sent to ABB in the last month. I probably don't need so many snapshots of ABB, but for now I have the space available.

Edit:

I shouldn't complain about the space being used by ABB and SR. This was the business case that I got approved for buying the DS1520+ ... "I'm protecting the kid's PCs!"

 

[gemic]

It's ABB and shows the default template I have for PCs. The Snapshot Replication has more retention options. But you'll see a pattern for my ABB shared folder settings My /homes folder has 2-hourly snapshots as that data is changing more during the day. Each Shared Folder has it's own settings, and whether or not to do snapshots.

Just ran 'Calculate Size' on the ABB shared folder (2.3TB): it has 14 snapshots and the size is estimated at 400GB. Now compare that to my /homes (556GB): 25 snapshots estimated at 11GB.

I know that one person's PC is used a lot for gaming and this generates over half of the 1.1TB sent to ABB in the last month. I probably don't need so many snapshots of ABB, but for now I have the space available.

Edit:

I shouldn't complain about the space being used by ABB and SR. This was the business case that I got approved for buying the DS1520+ ... "I'm protecting the kid's PCs!"

I dont have any kids.. but i do have a strong business case like you... protecting important stuff..

I am now in the process of migrating everything.. i thought to use the migration tools but then it would be.. too simple..

so i started from scratch in order to have a very "clean" (in my mind) system and am pushing forward..

by the way Rusty is right about HB.. something is not looking right.. i tested a backup i had on a usb drive from the previous nus and the HB explorer tool reported it was corrupted... good thing i did not find out in a worse scenario...

 

[Kaz!]

Hi all, reading through this thread, 2 questions relating to the above trying to fix my set-up:

1. I see that HB is not advised to backup ABB data to a remote (offsite) NAS. I did read on the Synology knowledge center that both SR and HB are explained as methods of backing up ABB data from my local NAS to an offsite NAS, selecting only the @ActiveBackup folder.

see link:

How do I back up and relink Active Backup for Business data to a destination Synology NAS? - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Do I understand correctly that this is not advised?
Why I ask is because, while my own NAS has BTRFS so could use Snapshot Replication, the offsite NAS does not support BTRFS and Snapshot Replication is not installed. I assume this is needed? Any other suggestions to make an offsite backup of ABB data?

2. To be double sure and because of the above issue I would (on top of the full backup of my Windows laptop with ABB to my NAS) also like to backup my Documents folder from my laptop seperately, just as extra security. What would you recommend as the tool to make this happen, as ABB only does full backups. Synology Drive? Alternatives?

Thanks in advance for any input!