Help me build my new home/business network

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Help me build my new home/business network

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I had posted questions related to this in the two separate threads shown below, and @jeyare had requested that I combine them into one thread here and to add some info. So, here it goes.

I'm going to be moving soon. Currently, I live in an acreage that is about 2 miles from my future house, as well as a barn that needs internet access.

My current home uses my ISP's crappy router that doesn't let me open/close ports that I need access to, but I've managed to get it to work with my NAS. My current home network supports netflix/hulu streaming, my NAS, and my home engineering consulting business, and a single wifi Amcrest security cam. I use my NAS for photo/video storage, file storage for both the engineering and farm business, and also as a backup server for my PC backups. I have the NAS set up so that I can access it remotely.

The barn has one Amcrest wifi cam and also uses the internet to remotely access the barn controller. The camera is by far the biggest consumer of bandwidth. The barn is currently serviced by a landline internet connection, but I'd like to consider somehow servicing it with a network extender of some sort from the new house.

Here is a list of what I've come up with for requirement for the new network in the new house:
1. easily handle your basic household networking such as web surfing and streaming content. Easy for authorized visitors to connect to the network.
2. Easy to set up and configure for connecting my DS918+ NAS. Allow remote connection to the NAS.
3. Is able to add range extenders to cover more of the farm than a standard router would. I'll discuss this more below
4. Handle at least 5 POE security cameras, plus the wifi security cam that is currently at the barn. Would like to get Surveillance Station set up, but I haven't done that yet. there is a possibility I'd add more cameras if the LAN could handle it. 99% of the time the cameras would be accessed from the LAN. I'd be using them to keep track of the kids playing in the yard and to monitor equipment on the farm. I'd only occasionally need remote access to them.
5. Handle both a 2nd on-site NAS as well as an offsite NAS. I plan on setting up my dad with his own NAS in his house, plus I'd be placing a 2nd NAS of my own at his place to serve as an off-site backup to my home NAS. I'd also have a 2nd NAS at my house to serve as an off-site backup to his NAS.
6. cost... No idea what this'll cost really. If it gets too spendy I'll probably cut back on some of the cameras and possibly the range extender to get signal to the barn. The main concern is getting a good router that'll keep the wife happy in the house.

As mentioned in the previous threads, there is currently a wifi extender to get wifi from the new house down to the shop, but I do not know if I'll keep it or not. As shown in the pics below, the house is about 730ft from the barn, but there are several large steel bins and a grove of trees between the house and the barn that'd block line-of-sight. There is a 60ft tall grain leg tower as shown in the pics that we could mount some sort of broadcast antenna to, and it'd be taller than anything on the farm. An antenna located on that tower that had a 500ft broadcast radius would be able to cover the entire farm, but it'd have to be able to also penetrate the steel sided buildings and house.

So, given all that, what do you all thnk? Leaning towards an ubiquiti setup, but there's so many different pieces to choose from.
 

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jeyare

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quite better described now. What a challenge! Specially this one:
“The main concern is getting a good router that'll keep the wife happy in the house.”
 

jeyare

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just to be sure:

1. you will leave your existing house and you don't need keep any connected infrastructure there. Y/N?
- when Y, then describe (devices and expected services)
- when N, you will keep the exist router for use in new house as primary WAN (internet) router? Y/N? When N is it possible to ask ISP to switch new router to a bridge mode? Y/N?

2. LAN in new home:
- how many devices you will connect to wired LAN (incl. TV, ...)
- when there is another device as NAS with >1xNIC (Ethernet connector) please describe it in the device list (needs to know how many ports you need in switch)

3. re all of the NASes:
- little bit lost in wording " 5. Handle both a 2nd on-site NAS as well as an offsite NAS. I plan on setting up my dad with his own NAS in his house, plus I'd be placing a 2nd NAS of my own at his place to serve as an off-site backup to my home NAS. I'd also have a 2nd NAS at my house to serve as an off-site backup to his NAS. "
Q: could you please draw on paper a basic diagram of which house / building will contain exactly which devices?
You can use also this web tool (free of charge) for really simple drawing of such diagrams.
An example:

1593767226809.png


then pls describe:
- what you will leave AS-IS
- what you would like transfer and where and why (e.g. backup of NAS)
- what you would like to purchase as new device (e.g. cameras)
 
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I'll follow up with more diagrams, but to answer your first question, we will be completely leaving the current house and have no further need of network there. I will need a new network equipment, as we rent the current router from our Isp and we are switching Isp at the new house.
 
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Well here goes. This pic shows the maximum number of devices that'd be online at any site at any given time. However, not all devices would be on the network at the same time. Meaning, a phone that's online at the house would switch to being online at the barn when a person walks down there. So as far as total devices on the network at once, here's the list:
1 barn controller
4 phones
2 pc's - 1 via ethernet, 1 via wifi
2 tv's - currently running via wifi, but could be hooked up to ethernet
2 NAS
6-10 cameras eventually, but not planning on streaming them all back to surveilance station nonstop.

Farm network devices.jpg


There isn't really anything that absolutely needs to be left as-is, other than the access to the NAS. Not sure what you meant about the transfer question. The NAS is being moved to the new house as well as a wifi camera that might be used at the house or elsewhere.

As far as the NAS/backup NAS confusion. There will be 4 total NAS. NAS 1A and 1B will be mine. 1A is the primary, and 1B will be the backup. NAS 2A and 2B will be my dad's. 2A will be his primary, and 2B his backup. 1A and 2B will be in my house on my network, while 2A and 1B will be in dad's house. That way we both have a primary on-site and a backup off-site.

I'll be purchasing new networking equipment and new cameras eventually.

Not sure if any of this helped or just muddied the waters further.
 
195
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I should add : fast LAN wifi is also a priority. My wife currently doesn't like storing pics on the NAS because it takes a while to load pics or to view them over wifi.
 
195
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Also, the barn controller needs an ethernet connection, so if we do set up a wireless network of some sort to reach out there to supply internet, I'll need a wireless converter of some sort to plug the barn controller into
 

jeyare

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follow all possible and available description from you (till now) you need:

New house:
1x Unifi USG Pro router
1x USW24p PoE Unifi switch (we will finalize final version up to final architecture spec) plus some free ports for future development of your LAN
WiFi AP ... needs to be cleared by your home architecture and expected coverage (indoor)

connection between “New house” and the Barn:
we have primary limitation 730ft/223m
then we have secondary limitations- trees and metallic objects between the source and target
So there we have two possible ways how to make two site connected in single LAN (or VLAN defined):
- Ubiquiti AirFiber radio works in 60GHz/1Gbps. Problem of this solution is that you need different Ubiquiti controller UNMS (primary used for WiFi ISPs). No way, complicated.
- Ubiquiti Building to Building Bridge (UBB) = 60GHz radio with 5GHz backup included. Up to range 500m with up to 1.7Gbps bidirectional max. bandwidth. Most important feature- you can manage this point to point bridge by Unifi controller, as all of rest network devices. Package includes two antennas + 2x 42V PoE Gigabit injectors. For each outdoor installation is recommended to use Ubiquiti surge protector ETH-SP-G2 for each antenna (then you need two). There is a single problem. You need a clear visibility between two antennas. Then you need a pole in your roof (new house) to be visible from the Barn.
Of course, there is a way to connect New house to your Grain Keg Tower, then to the Barn by 2 pairs of UBB, but is rally costly an useless for you. when you like to use it, you need add to this architecture additional external switch to Grain Keg Tower to be able (re-switch the pairs of UBB).Name of the switch is Unifi Switch Flex.Then you need additional PoE injector purchase for power of the switch.

Regarding “New house and Shop connection”
follow the map it’s less than 100m, then better is use Cat7 cable between them. Reason:
- its cheaper
- it’s no complicated
- it’s really powerful (up to 10Gbps)
ofc, someone must bury the cable into ground, also hanging wire is possible, but it’s up to your condition (there is a crossing road).
When you will bury 4 pairs of CAT7 you will get possible 2 backup wires and two for LAG (2Gbps for your NASes). This is really useful.

Mesh outdoor WiFi for defined places we can tune as next stage. It’s easy by Unifi.

Finally we can continue to deep dive architecture. This draft is based on single controller for managing of each network elements from any place in this earth (internet connection is necessary). Under control, include all added values. Safe and powerful.
 
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Thanks for digging into this. We are in the middle of the holiday weekend right now. I'll have to look up the recommended hardware to see what it all is and get back to you. Thanks again for getting me started, I really appreciate it.
 

jeyare

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this was made during my after dinner relax with new beer brand (tested right now). Enjoy your holiday!
 
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OK, I think I've found the hardware you've described...

For the house LAN:
Router: UniFi Security Gateway Pro

Switch: UniFi Switch 24 PoE Could I get away with this one as a cheaper option? UniFi Switch Lite 16 PoE

Wifi access points: my parents currently have a non-ubiquiti system in the house that they'll be taking with them, so I assume I'll need some sort of access point system inside the house as well. I believe they have the main wifi and then one access point back in the bedroom area. I believe that they have something similar to this plugged into the wall in the bedroom area. UniFi AP BeaconHD Wi-Fi MeshPoint Do I need another access point by the router?

For the greater farm network:
I believe you were talking about these for the house-to-barn connection? UniFi Building-to-Building Bridge I do not have line-of-site from the house to the barn. I'll need to relay the signal from the house to the Grain Leg Tower to the barn.

I believe this surge protector is designed to protect the ethernet cable that is downstream of the UBB antenna? Ethernet Surge Protector

I believe this flex switch would be used as a transfer switch to use a set off UBB from House to Tower, and then another UBB set from Tower to Barn with the flex switch in between? I'm not exactly sure. UniFi Switch Flex If this is the intention, can I use the flex switch to connect multiple UBB's off of the 1st house-to-tower set? For example, could we have a tower-to-shop UBB set in the future? Can we use the flex switch to set up a wifi network around the Tower?

For the house-to-shop connection, there is an existing non-ubiquiti UBB-style system that is already in use and it will be staying with the property. I'll probably keep using this system for now to save money. I also don't really want to trench in any cables. It'll be tough to cross the road, and we don't usually need huge bandwidth in the shop. Just need enough to stream music to keep us a little entertained. I'd like to have a plan for converting to ubiquiti hardware in the future if needed though.

It would be nice to have a wifi signal around the Grain Leg Tower as we could potentially use battery-powered wifi cameras to monitor the equipment.

I've seen talk in other threads about needing a Cloud Key. Is that part of the software that'd be installed on the NAS?

On a side note: It is a Grain Leg Tower. Its not a tower made out of kegs ;-). Farmers can be good beer drinkers, but not that good.
20190919_152644[1].jpg
 

jeyare

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so, in this stage I would like:
1. to clarify what exact building is your parents house (with 2 NASes = NAS-2A & NAS-1B), maybe it was my misunderstanding for the Shop

2. to fix number of ports in each buildings. Use XLS and write there all devices and related description for them. Use this form (it will maybe save your money and mental health during roll-out) :
1594026573641.png


3. fix Barn connection (see the attached PDF)
1594026761984.png

In the Ver.-2/MESH only you can use for the Hop2 - UAP-AC-M-PRO because you need bridge the connection for Barn devices (then a switch is needed in Barn). Also we can use same AP for the Hop1 (for an entire area coverage).
Limitations of the Ver.-1 is height of the trees between the Grain tower and Barn = heigh of the pole for UBB Radio-1 & 2. You need to measure AS-IS situation and future (trees will grow up).

This step (to solve all 3 requested info) is mandatory. Take a time for it and write all specified info, otherwise we can't move to final stage tuning.

PS:
you can't use single AP attached to the Grain tower, because there isn't way how to cover single circle 500ft area (limited radiation pane). We will solve the WiFi separately, when you will decide New house-Barn connection. Just for your interest here you can find updated Radiation pane diagrams for Ubiquiti APs.

Cheers!
 

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  • UBB vs MESH.pdf
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195
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1. I'm probably accidentally using "parent's house" interchangeable to mean either the house the currently live in and that I'm moving in to (my new house) or to mean the new house in town that my parents are moving to. Sorry. Will try to refer to it as "new house" for the house on the farm and "parent's house" house for their new house in town. The only part of my parent's house in town that comes into play is my future backup NAS being located there.

2. Here's what I came up with. Not 100% sure on the speeds, but I took my best guess. My current network is really a 2.4ghz network. The wifi gets clogged easily. We can't be streaming a movie at the same time as I download pics to my NAS or the video will freeze. I know I added some stuff to the New House connection list, but I'm trying to plan for the future.
1594083433099.png


3. Shop is 277ft from house and 300ft to the tower. It will not be possible to have a direct line of sight connection from the house to the barn, even with a pole. If we can use the tower as a relay point, then we won't need a pole at either the house or the barn because the tower is tall enough to get over the trees. The trees are already very mature, so I shouldn't have to worry about the getting bigger. There is line of sight from house to shop and from tower to shop.

I think I answered all the questions?
 

jeyare

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perfect!

1. New house - setup:
7x ETH port (for NAS I will count 2ports/NAS with LAG)
1x ETH port with PoE
maybe you forgot count ports for 2xTV (follow description in previous post)
1x ETH from the router
Total connected: 11x ETH ... but we need to count min. 2x for house WiFi AP (send me a plan by PM) + 1x for the outdoor MESH
Then Total connected: 14x by ETH
Then 16-ports switch seems to be OK for you

Just few examples for a future development:
Scenario n.1:
you will purchase 3 new devices with ETH (cams). Then you need purchase a small PoE switch (8-port is minimum for Unifi) connected into exist 16p. (then you will need free 1-port for the new small switch connection)
Scenario n.2:
- similar for another NAS with 4ports (but when you need LAG for the NASes, they have to connected into one switch). Or you need two switch connected with LAG support between them. Then you need count +2 of +4 ports for each switch just for the LAG. To be sure LAG = Link aggregation (more you can find in this forum). What is nice in Unifi world, each switch with 16+ ports has also 2x10GSFP, then you can use it for NAS (not for 918+) or for connection between two switches.

So for New house you need:
16xport switch with low PoE demand (just single cam)
USW-16-POE is your best choice
or
smart choice: 24-port switch without PoE + 8-port switch with PoE .... for the same/similar price as the 16p switch
US-24-EU + US-8-60W-EU
with this choice you will get perfect range of free ports for future development and still under single controller commend

Router: USG-PRO-4-EU

APs for indoor - send me (as was written above)
 

jeyare

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New house - Grain Leg - Barn

New house setup:
1. AP connected to your New house switch: UniFi AC Mesh AP
this AP PoE requirements are compatible with designed switches for New house
with this AP you will provide:
- primary connection to Grain leg and also cover WiFi between the New house and Grain Leg.
- primary connection to Shop and also cover WiFi between the New house and Shop.
------------
Grain Leg general setup:
you need AP to get WiFi from New house
you need AP to get bridge for Grain Leg/Barn connection
you need an external switch for this bridge, also for rest MESH covering from Grain Leg
you need 1xCAM (I hope Eth with PoE will be better for you)
you need PoE source
in any case for all your external PoE devices (for all buildings) is better to use Ethernet to Ethernet Grounded ESD Protection, here

then you need:
2x UAP-AC-M-PRO ..... both AP included ETH port for the bridge also
1x USW‑Flex .... external 5p switch with PoE for the APs & Cam (2 ports for APs, 1 port for CAM), the free 2 ports for a cam or additional AP for coverage of part between Shop and Barn (it's up to you)
-------------
Barn general setup:
you need AP to get WiFi from Grain Leg
you need AP to get bridge the connection
you need an switch for Barn network device usage (WiFi, Barn controller, Cam)
you need 1xCAM (I hope Eth with PoE will be better for you)
you need PoE source

then you need:
1x UAP-AC-M-PRO .....AP included ETH port for the bridge also
1x USW‑Flex .... external 5p switch with PoE for the AP & Cam (barn controller, Cam, bridge from AP)
yo don't need other AP for the Barn area coverage, when yes, you can purchase next UniFi AC Mesh AP (really not necessary)
 

jeyare

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Shop
80% sure, that both MESH APs (New house & Grain Leg) will cover your Shop with WiFi
when no:
you can install next UAP-AC-M-PRO to the Grain Leg and cover the Shop area
you have enough PoE energy and free ports there
then you don't need use another AP in the shop
because you don't need ETH in the shop it's easy way
 
195
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OK, for the ethernet connections in the house, I'm counting:
2x Laptop
2x NAS
4x Camera w/POE
2x TV
1x Printer
1x from the router
2x wifi ap
1x outdoor mesh
Total: 11x Ethernet plus 4x POE ethernet

I'm sorting through your previous posts trying to figure out all the equipment. Will post back once I get it ironed out. If we were closer I'd buy you that coffee...
 

jeyare

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Last edited:
follow your last list of devices + your PM you need:
10x ETH w/o PoE (include 2x Eth for each NAS)
7x ETH w PoE (Cam, indoor APs, Mesh)
then no way for the 16p switch
then the proposed combo of two switches (24/8) is suitable for this

follow your PM:
use two Unifi AP nanoHD in each legs of your house it will cover all your needs for x-years to future. Also with a ceiling installation it’s pretty hidden and also nice.
these 2 PoE ports are calculated into switch needs.

last for the Grain leg setup:
purchase of this
  • USW-Flex-Utility
outdoor enclosure (60W PoE source included) will save your outdoor switch twice

1594185482517.png
 

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