Help with upgrade path for bigger/faster NAS

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Help with upgrade path for bigger/faster NAS

13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
I currently have a DS1019+ with 5x14TB drives. I just upgraded from 5x10TB drives that I would like to also utilize as I'm now full. I would also like to upgrade to a larger/faster NAS and don't know if that means I need 10Gbe, SSD cache, more RAM, etc. Ideally I would like to utilize the 10 drives I currently have. I would also like 10Gbe speeds for large file transfers from my main PC as I deal mainly in large movie files. I don't know if its just a network speed issue or what, but currently if I try to do any maintenance such as deleting files or copying files around while Handbrake is running an encode, which is almost always, the whole network comes to a halt until the bandwidth is freed up again. What would you suggest as the best upgrade for both size and the speed I need to be able to multitask? The NAS is used as an Emby server so some transcoding is required, but I typically preencode all of the files that are shared to limit that. I would prefer to have a single NAS as opposed to expansion units or a 2nd NAS, but I will make that concession if it makes the most sense.
 

jeyare

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1. how many times per hour is such “large movie files” transfer performed between your computer and the NAS? For today and for next year?
2. What is hourly and daily capacity of such “large movie files” in GB. For today and for next year?
3. Is it about active media share for 3rd parties or just home entertaiment hub?

to be sure:
- SSD cache doesn’t bring more speed for small amount of large files.
- with 4x1Gbps in LACP in NAS with max 512MB/s you will transfer single 40GB 4k HDR+ 10bit movie in 80 seconds. Do you really need 10Gbps LAN???
- for the rendering you need in the targeted NAS just two 3D NAND TLC SSD with heavy SLC cache
- for store and watching of the large movies is any HDD applicable. You don’t need more than 100Mbps = 12,5MB/s. Any low cost HDD.
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
Let me see if I can answer some of your questions. To be clear, the movie encoding is being done on my PC not the NAS. I transfer probably 4-5 movies per day on average. If there is a 4x1Gbps network option that would probably max out the transfer speeds on these drives. I would like to utilize the 10 drives I currently have as opposed to buying more drives. I just don't which NAS will meet my needs. It is being used as an Emby server for about 10 remote users as well as a local server. I'm not totally sure what you are asking about the hourly and daily capacity. I have around 2000 movies and counting in addition to around 300 TV shows. That has my current 5x14TB drives full. I store two versions of the movies for local and remote streaming. The remote movies are around 8GB each, the local movies with HDR, Atmos, etc. are in the 40-60GB range for the most part.
 

Rusty

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If it’s pure storage from what I’m hearing then you just need space and potential 10G speed to offload prepped content to the NAS.

Rack models are an option or not @EhronW ?
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
If it’s pure storage from what I’m hearing then you just need space and potential 10G speed to offload prepped content to the NAS.

Rack models are an option or not @EhronW ?
I don't have a rack setup at all so I think the desktop models would be preferable.
 

jeyare

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based on your answer:
1. rendering jobs are done in your computer only, then no need speedy 10Gbps LAN. You can check my example with 4xLACP speed.
2. when you don’t have guaranteed WAN connection over 1Gbps then also don’t need utilize 10Gbps LAN
3. copying of the rendered job will take less time than rendering of next job. And for average 4 movies per day, it’s peanut. You will save 10minutes per day with 10Gbps vs 4x1GB
4. for storage of movies only and the media server for home usage, you don’t need heavy HW. Also you can’t utilize SSD cache or heavy RAM. Also you can use low performance HDDs. With enterprise HDDs you will get few minutes savings per day (files copied to NAS). With low cost QLC SSD you will get same performance as with low cost HDD (large capacity transfer).
5. desktop mount is preferred

Conclusion:
- for such data architecture you don’t need faster NAS than current model owned
- because you can’t utilize the performance of NAS CPU
- 10Gbps is overkill for your model and you have to count with additional >700 Eur or $ for switch, SFP+ adapter, NIC to your computer
it’s job for max. Intel Atom CPU and you can’t utilize Xeon.
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
Conclusion:
- for such data architecture you don’t need faster NAS than current model owned
- because you can’t utilize the performance of NAS CPU
- 10Gbps is overkill for your model and you have to count with additional >700 Eur or $ for switch, SFP+ adapter, NIC to your computer
it’s job for max. Intel Atom CPU and you can’t utilize Xeon.
Thank you for the info. So what do you recommend as the best way for me to upgrade? I would ideally like to add the 5x10TB HDD to the 5x14TB HDD I currently am using in my DS1019+. Would you recommend something like a 12 bay NAS or would I be better off with a 2nd 5 bay like I have? Can I add the 10TB drives to my current 14TB drives even though they are smaller? I am currently using SHR with a single parity drive.
 

jeyare

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it’s about your cost model:
- price of the expansion box for additional 5 bays
vs
- price of new NAS with 10 bays

easy solved by me: delete 90% of the movies and you have 40TB of storage space for free
 

Rusty

Moderator
NAS Support
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870
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DS412+, DS718+, DS918+, 2x RS3614RPxs+ with expansions
Router
  1. RT1900ac
  2. RT2600ac
  3. MR2200ac
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I would ideally like to add the 5x10TB HDD to the 5x14TB HDD I currently am using in my DS1019+. Would you recommend something like a 12 bay NAS or would I be better off with a 2nd 5 bay like I have?
Depends on your budget. If you have no RS options and would like a single NAS then you have DS2419+ as your current option atm.

Can I add the 10TB drives to my current 14TB drives even though they are smaller? I am currently using SHR with a single parity drive.
No, you can't smaller drives to your existing SHR volume if your max drive is 14TB. You can only expand with the same or drives larger than your current largest drive (14TB).
 

jeyare

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Just small consideration:
DS1019+ with 5x14TB drives, SHR
= 56TB Available space for:
....I have around 2000 movies and counting in addition to around 300 TV shows. ....
... 4-5 movies per day on average....
I would ideally like to add the 5x10TB HDD ....
= then next 40TB for additional 1500 movies

if you will watch one of your currently stored 2000 movies every single day, you'll be able to do it in 2000 days (5.5Y).

However, in 2000 days you will get new 4movies / day = 8000 movies .... but you can save only 1500 of them. Or delete almost all of them during next two years. Otherwise you will need new NAS.

If we reduce it to only 50% watching utilization = you will watch every second movie only stored in the NAS. Then it will take you >2Y. Then you can delete 1000 them now. And you have space for new movies for next 2Y.

But you have also next 300 TV shows.

Yes, yes it's your cost.
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
I have multiple users so it's not really about how many I can watch, and the hope is to not have to delete anything. I just didn't know if from a function/speed standpoint it makes more sense to switch to a 12 bay now or to add a 2nd NAS. I'm not super concerned with up front price as long as it is the best bang for the buck in the long run.
 

Rusty

Moderator
NAS Support
2,845
870
www.blackvoid.club
NAS
DS412+, DS718+, DS918+, 2x RS3614RPxs+ with expansions
Router
  1. RT1900ac
  2. RT2600ac
  3. MR2200ac
Operating system
  1. macOS
Mobile operating system
  1. iOS
I have multiple users so it's not really about how many I can watch, and the hope is to not have to delete anything. I just didn't know if from a function/speed standpoint it makes more sense to switch to a 12 bay now or to add a 2nd NAS. I'm not super concerned with up front price as long as it is the best bang for the buck in the long run.
Would suggest going for multiple devices, especially with a high volume of content. All eggs in the same basket might blow up in your face at one point.

Also simply consider what is the best bang by putting multiple HDDs and NAS boxes on one and same capacity of drives and a single big NAS on the other side.
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
- with 4x1Gbps in LACP in NAS with max 512MB/s you will transfer single 40GB 4k HDR+ 10bit movie in 80 seconds. Do you really need 10Gbps LAN???
Is this accurate? The reading I am doing on the Synology FAQ makes it sound like the 4 ethernet ports only affect the speed of multiple users, and a single user (My PC) would still be limited to just a 1Gb lane.
 
1,678
716
NAS
DS220+ : DS1019+ : DS216+II : DS118 : DS120j : APC Back UPS ES 700 — Mac/iOS user
Is this accurate? The reading I am doing on the Synology FAQ makes it sound like the 4 ethernet ports only affect the speed of multiple users, and a single user (My PC) would still be limited to just a 1Gb lane.
If you’re connected to a 1 Gb switch port, and the DS’ 4 ports are aggregated similarly, then yes, 1 Gb/s it is for your PC. It can’t increase the speed of your “line”.

As you’ve read, it’s useful when you have multiple users accessing the DS (with heavy read/write operations, I should add).
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
If you’re connected to a 1 Gb switch port, and the DS’ 4 ports are aggregated similarly, then yes, 1 Gb/s it is for your PC. It can’t increase the speed of your “line”.

As you’ve read, it’s useful when you have multiple users accessing the DS (with heavy read/write operations, I should add).
So it sounds like adding 10Gb cards may be the only way to speed up large file transfers from my PC
 
1,678
716
NAS
DS220+ : DS1019+ : DS216+II : DS118 : DS120j : APC Back UPS ES 700 — Mac/iOS user
So it sounds like adding 10Gb cards may be the only way to speed up large file transfers from my PC
Yes. But the other end (your NAS) better be on 10Gb too and the switch should have 10Gb/s ports (as I’m sure you know).
It all adds up. If you really need it and can afford it, go for it. If it’s going to be useful for the occasional “one big transfer”, then the value diminishes.
 

jeyare

Subscriber
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Few point of view:

1. As was mentioned by @WST16 - LACP is useful for wide and multiple access between Switch and NAS. You need purchase proper switch for such operation with proper switching capacity. Also min. CAT 5e wire infra is mandatory.

2. For 4Gbps full aggregate lanes speed of the NAS you need 5Gbps NIC in your computer or 10Gbps NIC. Also proper switch is necessary. For the 10Gbps wire between comp and NAS you need min. CAT6 wire. This is really cost optimal and useful solution (my own).

3. For E2E 10Gbps between NAS and computer you need min CAT6 wires, 10G switch (don’t trust to low cost brands) and 10Gbps NIC in your computer. For such heavy investment you will get speed, that is utilisable only with intensive workload between fast NVMe source in PC and fast SSDs with RAID0 at the NAS side. This is business driven solution, when cost is secondary issue.

Then there isn’t simple “no” answer. Simplification is great only when there is a real and useful reason.
 
13
1
NAS
DS1019+
Operating system
  1. Windows
Yes. But the other end (your NAS) better be on 10Gb too and the switch should have 10Gb/s ports (as I’m sure you know).
It all adds up. If you really need it and can afford it, go for it. If it’s going to be useful for the occasional “one big transfer”, then the value diminishes.
It is my understanding that if I am simply connecting my pc to the nas, I can avoid a switch and connect the 10Gb adapters together directly. If that is the case, that would be an affordable solution to speed up large file transfers, which is my goal.
-- post merged: --

Few point of view:

1. As was mentioned by @WST16 - LACP is useful for wide and multiple access between Switch and NAS. You need purchase proper switch for such operation with proper switching capacity. Also min. CAT 5e wire infra is mandatory.

2. For 4Gbps full aggregate lanes speed of the NAS you need 5Gbps NIC in your computer or 10Gbps NIC. Also proper switch is necessary. For the 10Gbps wire between comp and NAS you need min. CAT6 wire. This is really cost optimal and useful solution (my own).

3. For E2E 10Gbps between NAS and computer you need min CAT6 wires, 10G switch (don’t trust to low cost brands) and 10Gbps NIC in your computer. For such heavy investment you will get speed, that is utilisable only with intensive workload between fast NVMe source in PC and fast SSDs with RAID0 at the NAS side. This is business driven solution, when cost is secondary issue.

Then there isn’t simple “no” answer. Simplification is great only when there is a real and useful reason.
I relate this to buying a faster car. I'm not going to drive fast most of the time, but I want to have the option for the times I do!
 
1,678
716
NAS
DS220+ : DS1019+ : DS216+II : DS118 : DS120j : APC Back UPS ES 700 — Mac/iOS user
It is my understanding that if I am simply connecting my pc to the nas, I can avoid a switch and connect the 10Gb adapters together directly. If that is the case, that would be an affordable solution to speed up large file transfers, which is my goal.
Might work. I have no experience with direct connections, so I can’t give you any valuable input.
 

jeyare

Subscriber
1,756
577
Last edited:
when you have just single computer with 10G NIC, there is possible the direct connection with a crossover cable, but:
- you need two NICs in your computer (for the NAS, rest of LAN/WAN)
However, the existence of more than single NIC with multiple LANs in your computer can cause connectivity problems if each network interface is not properly configured ... based on your questions structure it can be easily happen.
Then you need setup two different LANs in the NAS, when you need connection to the NAS for other members or for your Syno Smart apps or WAN for the NAS.
-- post merged: --

check your bios setup if you don’t have disabled MDI-X feature for the NIC, then you don’t need the crossover cable
 

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