Migrate with changes

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Migrate with changes

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NAS
DS214play
Operating system
  1. Windows
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Most suggestions I see for migration involve backing up and copying over configuration and entire data set, as-is. But my old NAS was my first Synology product, and as a result the setup is pretty screwy with custom shares, and a web of user rights, that I'd prefer to not replicate onto the new NAS.

Old NAS: DS214play with RAID-1 (2x 4TB = 4TB total) at 75% usage
New NAS: DS923+ with SHR-1 (2x 8TB = 8TB total)

After setting up new NAS and moving all data, old NAS will be kept sync'd to new, as a fall-back should the new hardware ever fail. Note, this is live sync and not a backup, I handle backup separately using B2 Backblaze.

NAS is accessed by maybe 20 devices (PC's, tablets, phones, smart TV's) and six users (4 actual users + 2 accounts used for photo synching, etc.), so I know this will mean added work on my end, but seems like a better way to avoid copying over any security holes created by messing with shares and user rights over 10 years with the old unit. Old NAS could be wiped and set up fresh, probably before then sync'ing most of the original data back to it, unless someone has a good shortcut to minimize all the data moves to/from.

How would you guys handle this? I like the idea of pulling a disc from the old and temporarily mounting in the new for direct copy, taking advantage of 6Gbps SATA instead of 1Gbps Ethernet.
 
Agree. If you are familiar with mounting drives in DSM.
I'm familiar enough with mounting USB or SD cards. In this case, it'd be a single drive of the old RAID-1 pairing... not sure what havoc that would create.

Of course, I also have space to just take the old RAID-1 pair and temporarily move them to the new DS923+, next to my new SHR-1 pairing. Again, not sure what trouble that could create.

Of course, moving over Ethernet is totally safe, no chance of screwing up the old volume. It's just slow.

The other factor is that, assuming this move could take a day or three, I may need to continue using the files while the transfer happens. Fun.
 
Okay. I checked the link, but I'm thinking the shared folder sync is probably the way to go. If I do it folder-by-folder, rather than the whole shebang all at once, I can manage around my need to use some of these files.
 
A Sync is not a backup. Accidental deleted, encrypted or corrupted files will not be recoverable in a shared folder sync solution as some seconds later the sync is made.
Better use a copy based system if backup is needed.
 
Also you could use Hyper Backup single file option that will also transfer files via network using the original file/folder structure with no proprietary backup format. Just another option is all.
Thanks! Never looked into that, as I've only ever used Hyperbackup for backing up to cloud. I'll dig into that. If you needed to move files in groups that would minimize interruption of work (eg. 0.5 - 1.0 TB per night), would you use Hyperbackup, shared folder sync, or some other method?

I tend to think sync sounds best, as any changes made to source during migration would get automatically re-sync'd to destination. In this case, old NAS would be the source, and clients would continue using that until done with syncing the NAS's. When done, I assume I can just break the sync relationship, and then redirect the clients to the new NAS.

A Sync is not a backup. Accidental deleted, encrypted or corrupted files will not be recoverable in a shared folder sync solution as some seconds later the sync is made.
Better use a copy based system if backup is needed.
Yep. That's why I already said in the original post, "...this is live sync and not a backup, I handle backup separately using B2 Backblaze." Sync is being considered for initial copy-over, and then later for keeping a second NAS sync'd to the first, solely to have a live copy available to avoid interruption of work in case the primary NAS experiences a failure that takes it offline. The primary NAS will always be backed up to Backblaze, even if sync'd to secondary NAS, and I keep a substantial file history there.
 
i understand. My will rephrase my doubts :). Most companies would either rely on a raid with one or two redundant disks (for uptime in case of disk failure) with possibly a spare Nas in case of rare hardware failure (swap all disks), or step up to an High availability solution where 2 systems are fully in sync all the time if no downtime is allowed.
The shared folder sync solution, I did not see this in the wild as professional “backup system”.
Maybe because system updates are typically not synced (open databases, system partition changes like permissions), package changes. It may work for data-files only, a restore test/script merging your Backblaze files and settings with the shared folder sync solution seems essential to me to know if you can properly and timely be up and running again.
 
Understood. I'm only a little one-man business with several contractors, but the business is such that there are some periods where I cannot afford even a day or two of computer downtime due to a hardware failure, without potential loss of a major order. That's not everyday, but of course disaster only strikes at the least convenient time... right?

Having a second NAS sync'd to the primary NAS seems like a pretty good way of being able to recover from any NAS hardware failure that takes the thing offline, such as a CPU or cooling fan failure (I've had two or three in 20 years), while waiting on repair parts to ship. Just shut down the primary NAS and point everything at that secondary unit, until the primary can be repaired. After it's repaired and back online, just manually (hell... use DOS!) copy any updated files back to the new NAS, and point all your shares back to that. Plus, I can hide the secondary in the basement, where maybe it's unaffected by any theft or fire that might wipe out the primary.

Since I'm going to have this old DS214play laying around anyway, I figure it's basically free insurance to keep it sync'd with the new/primary NAS. If the new DS923+ has a failure in the next ten years, we all know it's probably going to be in the first few months, classic "bathtub curve" failure probability stuff. Keeping this old DS214play sync'd to the new/primary NAS, for as long as the hardware lasts, should get me past that.

When the old DS214play or one of its associated discs fails, that will be the time to debate the merit of keeping it running and sync'd, but until then it's just free insurance.

Of course, backup to B2 Backblaze is always happening, for true disaster recovery. But I don't even want to think about the day when I need to actually download the entire volume from the cloud to an NAS, after already losing several days to repair or replacement. I recover accidental deletions from Backblaze, usually an individual file or small directory, but full volume recovery must take many days.
 
I understand your point, and it may work.
My choice is to separately backup all recent / fast moving data, that can be restored in a few hours maximum. For me that feels like more efficient than keeping a 10 year old unsupported device alive. Your choice, just want to share my view..
 
I'm not an expert in any of this, so if you have a better plan, please lay it out! But remember, my goal is zero down-time due to things like cooling fan and CPU failures. I've been running NAS's for about 20 years now, and before that a PC home file server for another 10 years. In those 30 years, I've had at least 4 cooling fan failures, 3 of them in NAS's, each which took the thing offline for about a week until a replacement arrived. That's just not acceptable, when I have my business data on the NAS. I also had a CPU failure in one of my older PC-based file servers, although I don't actually remember now what finally took down the prior NAS.

If the big concern with my plan is the unsupported firmware, creating a security concern, I guess I could replace the 214 with another cheap 2-bay NAS, after getting the 923+ all set up and stabilized. But if you think the 2-NAS system is a bad idea overall, then please recommend a better "zero down-time" plan.
 
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You might sync the files you need within the couple of days, to O365, Idrive or Google drive. Dirt cheap and it will give you access to your most important files during a short downtime without the risk and update worries of an unsupported NAS.

But please do what you think is good, I am just communicating my humble opinion, there are multiple ways to solve this.
 
If you needed to move files in groups that would minimize interruption of work (eg. 0.5 - 1.0 TB per night), would you use Hyperbackup, shared folder sync, or some other method?
If it’s a move, then it would be HB single file option for sure. After that I would set backup and/or sync depending on the need between the two.
 
Thanks, guys! I guess I never really even thought of using a cloud service instead of NAS, as my emergency secondary source. I think that could work, but I'm not sure the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, in my case:

1. Some of the data I deal with may be commerce controlled for export (eg. EAR-3A), in some rare cases even ITAR (arms restrictions). This means nothing can go to the cloud without being locally encrypted first, unless I'm using a cloud service that's set up specifically for handling export-controlled data, unless I am careful to specifically exclude that data.

2. My present ERP system is built on a set of large spreadsheets, with many references between them. I'm not sure how well Excel handles live references across a cloud connection. These spreadsheets can already be slow just to a NAS, despite substantial effort in optimizing them.

3. Cost over time lower or higher than just having a second 2-bay NAS? Remember, I already have the NAS, and even replacing the DS214play with a DS223j, we're talking only $185 on Amazon. Those old WD Red's in my current NAS have only 72k hours on them, and they're rated MTTF > 1M hours. Even if cost is similar, second NAS has speed and two above advantages over cloud. No?

Not arguing, just trying to decide which is really the best path. Maybe biased toward my original idea, for the sake of nothing more than mental momentum. :)
 
2) It should be doable on the Onedrive, but agree, not recommendable.

3) A remark on MTBF 1M hours:
A million hours gives 1000000/8760h per year= 114 years :)

You cannot use the MTBF as measure for the life time of disks. It is a reliability indicator and cannot be used for estimation of individual disk life.

Your 72000 disk hours means the disks have run over 8 years, which is pretty good, but for sure, in practice, the can start developing issues rather sooner than later. So i would prepare for replacement.
 
2) It should be doable on the Onedrive, but agree, not recommendable.

3) A remark on MTBF 1M hours:
A million hours gives 1000000/8760h per year= 114 years :)

You cannot use the MTBF as measure for the life time of disks. It is a reliability indicator and cannot be used for estimation of individual disk life.

Your 72000 disk hours means the disks have run over 8 years, which is pretty good, but for sure, in practice, the can start developing issues rather sooner than later. So i would prepare for replacement.
Yep, agreed. I'm actually an engineer, and have to work with MTTF extrapolation and Arrhenius curves as part of my daily work, so I understand it better than most. Without going into a huge tangent on accelerated life testing, and the assumptions made therein, I'll just say I'm not counting on getting anywhere near 1M hours from the old drives in my DS214.

But that's not really important to me here, as either is easily replaced with very little money or fuss, when they eventually begin to fail. One disk in a redundant array, in a secondary NAS in a system with primary NAS + offsite backup only ever becomes relevant when the primary NAS fails, and only graduates from "relevant" to "important" should everything else fail.

Point is, any discussion of disk lifetime with regard to this secondary NAS may be interesting, but not important. I'm fine running 8yo disks in that secondary box for now, and just replacing them when/if they die, one at a time. Easy-peasy.
 
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Been copying files all evening, from old NAS to new. Also set up B2 backup on the new, with a new container. I can go back and delete the old container after I have a comfortable history backlog with the new, to avoid high cost of duplicates.

I've just been mounting each old share in the new NAS, and using drag/drop to copy the old directories to their new locations on the new NAS. I suppose I'm giving up any sort of data verification by using drag/drop, versus something like Hyperbackup, but it's certainly easier than configuring multiple backup tasks to move groups of files to new homes in the new directory structure.

Any recommended checks, to verify things have copied error free?
-- post merged: --

Uh oh... just received this from the old NAS, while copying off of it:

Read abnormality (UNC error) is detected on Drive 2 in DS214play Detail
System Event

1 minute ago
Bad sector was found on disk[2].

Storage manager on that NAS is still showing Volume, Storage Pool, and drives all as "Healthy". :unsure:
 
Use Shared Folder Sync.
I guess I should check it out, but since I was reorganizing data, I wasn't sure this was the best option across the board.

Shared Folder Sync includes error checking / file compare?
 

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