Need advice NAS acquisition advice for gogo_jiro: home, 500 EUR

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Need advice NAS acquisition advice for gogo_jiro: home, 500 EUR

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2
Operating system
  1. Windows
Mobile operating system
  1. iOS
Usage type: home

Preferred form factor any

Number of bays: 2-bays, 4To available

Do you have any existing drives that you plan on using? No

Prefered RAID array setup for this NAS: RAID 1

This NAS will be used for: backup, multimedia, business (virtual machines, mail, office, etc.), utilities (docker, VPN, reverse proxy, web hosting, etc.), downloads (torrents, USENET, WebDAV, FTP, etc.)

Max budget for this setup: 500 EUR

Number of users that will utilize this NAS: 2

Any preferred network connectivity? 1G

Where will this NAS be used: LAN and over the Internet

Any special network requirements: /

Special cloud provider connectivity: /
 
Your entry device for that set of features (esp. Docker and VMM) is the DS220+. But you should also budget for adding more RAM as both mail server and VMM will use a fair bit.

Though the DS720+ may be better as it is quad core CPU and you assign cores to VMs.
 
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Probably not the sharpest price but indicative :
2 * 4TB NAS disk= 210euro
that leaves you 290 euro for a NAS, typically you would need another 80euro to get a decent specced DS220+ (NAS + extra memory).
Budget seems too tight.
If it needs to be within budget, you might go for an DS218, it will struggle (=not run) with the demanding tasks like VMM.
 
Budget seems too tight.
Yes, it's just a little too tight. Looking at UK prices from reputable online store, pricing including 20% vat (sales tax):
4TB WD Red Plus or 4TB Seagate IronWolf: £100
Synology DS220+: £322

If it needs to be within budget, you might go for an DS218, it will struggle with the demanding tasks like VMM.
Unfortunately the DS218 doesn't support Docker or VMM, and it doesn't have upgradeable RAM. The DS220+ is the lowest priced DSM NAS to support these features, unless you find an older DS218+ for a good price.
 
Thank you for your answers

Indeed i was looking for DS220+ as i think would be the best model for my needs. I'm not strict budget limited and can add a bit more if it is worth the money.

About the DS220+ RAM, does it really need RAM upgrade ? At first I don't plan to deploy docker or VMs, only VPN, media server, some downloads and web hosting, but i don't exclude more RAM demanding tasks in the future. If so what is RAM cost estimates and which model should i get ?
In any cases, that's a major mark to be able to have upgradeable RAM.

Finally about disks, are the references you mentionned fredbert the recommended one for the DS220+, in term of performance/price ?

I think i can go up to 600€, all included (NAS + disks + potential RAM upgrade).

Thank you very much for your answers and help.
 
From the features you've listed it sounds that you would be interested in doing more than just the included packages. The best way to make the NAS more flexible is by using Docker, so having this capability will keep you from considering an upgrade earlier than you otherwise would.

Here's my DS218+ which has been relegated to minor duties and mostly is in as a quiescent state as it's probably possible. Packages that are active but not client connections include: Plex; Docker; VMM; Synology Drive and other office packages; MailPlus Server and MailPlus webmail; plus lots of others.

The DS218+ is the immediate predecessor of the DS220+ where both have a dual core Intel CPU and 2GB RAM, expandable [officially] to 6GB.

MailPlus Server is more hungry than the older Mail Server, here being 1.26GB doing nothing (it's AV eating it up) vs ~500MB.

I have no VMs running in VMM (but can run vDSM 7 when I want to test it) but have five Docker containers running (two actively).

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As for the HDD then the WD Red Plus and Seagate IronWolf would be a good starting point. I have WD Red (old version = new Red Plus) 4TB in my DS218+ and 8TB IronWolf in the DS1520+. See other thread and resources on HDDs.

Upgrade RAM: much discussion about Synology saying to use their modules but mostly people find compatible modules from Crucial and other reliable brands. See threads on this topic.
 
I think i can go up to 600€, all included (NAS + disks + potential RAM upgrade).
In that case, I have 720+, a really great NAS.

The NAS is 430 EUR (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B088V6YDTP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Add the disks:
2 * 4TB NAS disk= 210euro
4TB WD Red Plus or 4TB Seagate IronWolf: £100

And you are a bit more than 600 EUR. But you'll get a bit better NAS than 220+ (if you plan to run VMs...)

After you decide what to do with the NAS etc., you'll budget another 60 EUR for this RAM:

And it will fly.
 
From the features you've listed it sounds that you would be interested in doing more than just the included packages. The best way to make the NAS more flexible is by using Docker, so having this capability will keep you from considering an upgrade earlier than you otherwise would.

Here's my DS218+ which has been relegated to minor duties and mostly is in as a quiescent state as it's probably possible. Packages that are active but not client connections include: Plex; Docker; VMM; Synology Drive and other office packages; MailPlus Server and MailPlus webmail; plus lots of others.

The DS218+ is the immediate predecessor of the DS220+ where both have a dual core Intel CPU and 2GB RAM, expandable [officially] to 6GB.

MailPlus Server is more hungry than the older Mail Server, here being 1.26GB doing nothing (it's AV eating it up) vs ~500MB.

I have no VMs running in VMM (but can run vDSM 7 when I want to test it) but have five Docker containers running (two actively).

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As for the HDD then the WD Red Plus and Seagate IronWolf would be a good starting point. I have WD Red (old version = new Red Plus) 4TB in my DS218+ and 8TB IronWolf in the DS1520+. See other thread and resources on HDDs.

Upgrade RAM: much discussion about Synology saying to use their modules but mostly people find compatible modules from Crucial and other reliable brands. See threads on this topic.
That is quite a hungry Mailserver for Memory!
I’m also running Mailserverplus (5 users) but mine doesn’t use that much memory as shown in the screenshot.
 

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That is quite a hungry Mailserver for Memory!
I was surprised. So switched off AV and then AS and the RAM usage dropped massively. Not sure what it thinks it's doing as it gets no mail, only has whatever was in user mailboxes up to the point I switch the STMP port forward to the new NAS.

See screenshots of DS218+ MailPlus Server vs, my actually doing something, DS1520+ Mail Server (the perl processes are associated with clam and spamassassin). The DS1520+ Mail Server is currently light on RAM vs what I normally see.

In that case, I have 720+, a really great NAS.
Which is why I suggested it "Though the DS720+ may be better as it is quad core CPU and you assign cores to VMs."

It's the great money-creep conundrum that Synology has created for us :)
 

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I guess you are right, 720+ would allow to run more services simultaneous using docker containers. I'm planning to upgrade storage and RAM but i don't see myself upgrade NAS model in the short term so i think 720+ would fit better my needs for long term investment.

How the 720+ distinguish from 220+, other than quad core instead of dual ?
That's about ~120€ difference between the twos, is it justified ?

Furthermore, are M.2 NVME bays worth to consider and for which purpose ? I don't think it is needed for media server (even 4K video).
 
The DS720+ has a three year warranty instead of the DS220+ two year.

The DS720+ supports expansion using a DX517 via the eSata port. The general advice is not to span a storage pool across the main and expansion units, but it's possible.

The DS218+ had the eSata port and supported the DX517 but its pool couldn't span the units, thereby taking away any temptation. The DS220+ dropped the eSata port but gained a second LAN port.

If you thought you may want to expand using the DX517 then know it's the thick end of the price of a DS920+. So be certain that a 2-bay will be enough. And you still should be backing up the NAS, especially if it holds actively used data.

As for the SSD read/write cache, some use and some don't. So far I haven't seen the need for it.


Oh and the final thing to note is to use a UPS. Doesn't have to be expensive but will protect the storage pool in cases when power is lost.
 
So be certain that a 2-bay will be enough
And if you saw I have a DS218+ and now aDS1520+ and wondered why: it's because I didn't get a DS918+ at the time of the DS218+.

This time the DS1520+ as it's the DS920+ plus
  • 1 more bay
  • extra 4GB RAM
  • 2 extra 1GbE LAN ports
  • 1 more eSata port
Hoping that stops me looking to upgrade for a long while.
 
So be certain that a 2-bay will be enough
I don't get the point of having more than 2 bays in my case, as it will be used as redundancy of storage as RAID 1.

I would tend to say that if i need more storage, i can upgrade 4TB disks to 8 or 16TB.

Maybe i'm missing something crucial there so please enlighten me.

the final thing to note is to use a UPS
Is it mandatory ? the NAS alone doesn't come with integrated safe shutdown system in case of power outage ?
Then what entry price reference should i look for.
 
The need for a UPS is mainly there in area‘s with regular power dip’s. in my area, the latest power dip was around 5 years ago, no need for a UPS here.

in case you run a web server, mail server etc, you will need a backup, I think that is more important than a UPS. Have you planned how to do the backup?
 
Have you planned how to do the backup?
If you are talking about data integrity rather than services redundancy, I guess in the most naive way, I would say automatic scheduled backup on specific data.
I'm not fully aware of what is possible or must be done, but for my current knowledge level, I think data backup + disk redundancy with RAID would do the trick to ensure important data integrity.
 
I don't get the point of having more than 2 bays in my case, as it will be used as redundancy of storage as RAID 1.

I would tend to say that if i need more storage, i can upgrade 4TB disks to 8 or 16TB.

Maybe i'm missing something crucial there so please enlighten me.
If this is your 1st nas I can see that there is no need for more than a single drive usable space. However, over time this might change and in some cases, you will not be able to upgrade or manipulate your RAID1 volume unless you backup your data 1st, destroy the volume and rebuild again.

In those cases having more bays will save you the headache. Also, upgrading drives nowadays some might consider premium considering that getting the drives in the 1st place is not that easy, and if you do you will pay 30-40% more than the same time last year (for 6+ TB models for example).

NAS is a long term investment for the most part, so looking at the best/biggest model you can get might not be a bad idea.
 
@gogo_jiro just to address a few of your points...


UPS is useful to protect both the hardware but also data integrity in the case that it happens when writing the same data to the two disks. My latest power outage was last week when some building developers cut a big cable nearby, we're not in the back of beyond and still manage to get a few a year.

In Storage Manager each disk has an option which would be wise to keep disabled when there's no UPS.
1624381272014.png


Two disks may be all you need, using SHR / RAID 1 to mirror the drives. It's possible to expand by switching out disks with bigger ones. My comment was to just consider if you might see a time where more storage would be needed, such as if you decide to host a video library. Now is the ideal time to think about it.

For basic file serving you can even connect USB drives to the NAS and use them via SMB, etc. But for some of the NAS packages, e.g. Active Backup for Business, then you have to use internal storage on a Btrfs volume. The NAS doesn't support Btrfs formatted external drives.​

Backup of the NAS can be as simple as connecting a suitably large USB drive and running Hyper Backup. Though it also supports rsync/WebDAV server and cloud destinations (though not OneDrive, much to a lot of complaining on the other forum). Multiple tasks to different destinations are supported. This backs up the NAS and package configurations (as much as is supported and better in DSM 7), and shared folders and their data.



If I can pull this back to summarise the salient features of the in-scope NAS, even the oddly spec'ed and priced DS420+.

The DS220+ is a nice home server if a dual core CPU will suffice. But VM's when running will require cores to be assigned. The 4-bay version, DS420+, is only slightly cheaper than the DS920+ so why wouldn't you just get that if you need 4-bays?

The DS720+ is a really nice home server, so the question of this vs DS920+ is 'is it worth spending another ~£100* now?'. That £100 only gets you 2GB of RAM, if you only need two bays. But if you later need 8TB then your options are:
  • DS720+ buy two 8TB drives at ~£400 and put the two 4TB on a shelf, or securely scrub them and resell.
  • DS920+ add a third 4TB for ~£100.
*Change to your currency unit.

The hard bit is knowing in advance how much you're going to find to do with the NAS that you hadn't thought of before buying it... or, alternatively, not find. To be totally honest, other than for running VMM, you'll probably be really happy with any of these.

Feature
DS220+​
DS720+​
DS420+​
DS920+​
Internal drive bays2244
Supports DX517
(eSata port)
NoYesNoYes
CPUDual core
Intel Celeron J4025
Quad core
Intel Celeron J4125
Dual core
Intel Celeron J4025
Quad core
Intel Celeron J4125
RAM (included (soldered to PCB))2 GB2 GB2 GB4 GB
RAM (max (soldered + one slot))6 GB6 GB6 GB
8 GB​
SSD read/write cache
(2x M.2 Drive Slots)
NoYesYesYes
1 GbE LAN ports2222
Warranty2 years3 years3 years3 years
 

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