Info Need UPS Advice - Lithium Ion?

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Info Need UPS Advice - Lithium Ion?

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I need a UPS. Again.

It must be 10 years since we had a power-cut but gone through 2 UPSs and a few batteries in that time. Cyberpower unit this time - need a new battery but the old one has swollen so much it has disrupted the case and it isn't going anywhere. Same issue with the UPS before that - lead acid battery swelling and becoming non-replaceable. Maybe I should lube them with KY at installation...

I've got 1U of space, 2U at a push and a limited depth of 300mm or so. I don't need much up-time - just enough for transients and then a few minutes for the NASes to shutdown. I'm happy for the router and switches to quit on power loss and the Mac mini and mini-PC server don't seem to mind powercuts so much; well, that's why we have backups, right?

Since I last looked for a small UPS the whole Lithium Ion battery UPS has become a thing. APC do a shallow depth 1U that would juice 2 NASes to graceful shutdown (APC Smart-UPS 500VA - SCL500RMI1U) and presumably being an APC it should work with Synology. They are a bit more expensive(!) but may solve my woes with compact lead-acid batteries.

Does anyone have any experience of them?

[Yes, I am now running commando / bareback and trusting to luck but I did remember to turn-off write caching.]

APC Smart UPS 500 Li-Ion Front Alpha copy.png
 
They are not really plugged-in 24/7 in that sense though. The BMS will control when and by how much the Li-Ion will receive charge. I think the APC ones pull around 10W max when charging.

I do get the safety side and I suppose we have to trust that they know what they are doing these days. Strapping a massive bank of Li-Ion batteries on a house has become a thing and so has using them in vehicles that may crash into each other.

Still, there is a lot of energy in a confined space with lithium, although having my last few lead-acid batteries swell with a mix of hydrogen and oxygen isn't particularly reassuring either.
 
I do get the safety side and I suppose we have to trust that they know what they are doing these days. Strapping a massive bank of Li-Ion batteries on a house has become a thing and so has using them in vehicles that may crash into each other.

Still, there is a lot of energy in a confined space with lithium, although having my last few lead-acid batteries swell with a mix of hydrogen and oxygen isn't particularly reassuring either.
I’m holding out for dilithium crystals, which I hear will be much more powerful and reliable. As long as you can manage an anti-matter containment field… but from what I’ve read it’s still a couple orders of magnitude easier and safer than lead acid batteries. 😉

And I know you were joking about the KY lubricant but there is an electrical/electronic equivalent that might work, though the name escapes me at the moment. And adding it to the inside of your UPS may void your warranty. YMMV
 
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And I know you were joking about the KY lubricant but there is an electrical/electronic equivalent that might work, though the name escapes me at the moment. And adding it to the inside of your UPS may void your warranty. YMMV
I've got a big bottle of the stuff so will have to read the label for the proper name; but everyone calls it KY anyway. We use it for lubricating cables when pulling them through conduits. Probably called conduit lube or something, not that that sounds much better!
-- post merged: --

"Klein Premium Synthetic Wire and Cable Pulling Lubricant"

Ok, KY it is.

 
Still, there is a lot of energy in a confined space with lithium, although having my last few lead-acid batteries swell with a mix of hydrogen and oxygen isn't particularly reassuring either.
To the best of my understanding of the difference, lead acid batteries do not ignite. They swell (and of course can have some dangerous side effects as a result) but they don't directly burst in a ball of fire like Lithium batteries.
 
To the best of my understanding of the difference, lead acid batteries do not ignite. They swell (and of course can have some dangerous side effects as a result) but they don't directly burst in a ball of fire like Lithium batteries.
True, the batteries themselves do not ignite, although when charging they give off hydrogen gas. Without proper ventilation, that hydrogen will explode quite spectacularly with the tiniest spark.
 
>>but everyone calls it KY anyway

How appropriate; I had not thought of that. Appropriate in that when the wiremen put short 1cm rubber sleeves over the end of wires and cables, the 3 pronged tool used to open up the diameter of the rubber sleeve, with some lubrication, was know as a 'fanny stretcher' (UK definition/terminology.)
 
When the discussion is about the Li-ion UPS batteries it’s probably about LFP = LiFePO4. What is a frequent miss understanding of Lithium powered batteries.
When low cost Li-on technology has been driver of massive smartphones and consumer’s electronic/devices. Yes it’s really dangerous, specially when there isn’t right charger in usage (a tax for the low cost).
LFP is totally different from common known Li-ion.
LFP is now main energy storage medium for PV energy production.
And have more advantages than acid lead batteries, e.g. deep discharge cycle, useful stable power capacity, ...
Don’t be scared from LFP. There is necessary to use BPM - Battery Power Management - a device which can split the power draining to each cells in same way. Same for a charge. No need a cooling. You can’t use same charger as for acid batteries- there is a big difference of charging profile - then you can’t change just batteries in your exist UPS. Don’t do that. Same for car batteries.
Finally LFP is safe technology.

I have done now rebuild of my expedition car with LiFePO4 power source for all necessary operation except car engine support. 50% less space for same power in Ampere hours. And more other advantages.
 
Finally LFP is safe technology.

I wish I could say that I had taken the plunge this time but alas, I went to regular lead/acid batteries again. The only (just about) affordable Lithium UPS I could find was the APC one above and I have had my doubts about APC firmware in the past. The Eaton Lithium UPS was unbelievably expensive. Hopefully prices will come down as the performance and size advantages are there to see.

If this Eaton battery swells and kills itself I may regret not trying the lithium option this time around.
 
the cost of the LFP batteries is relative variable, you need take into consideration:
1. durability cycles = lifetime: up to 3000/LFP vs 500/ lead acid(SLA) .... some extreme models of LFP up to 5000 cycles
2. higher deep of discharge = constant power delivery up to 90%/LFP vs 50%/SLA
3. low self discharge (up to model)
4. higher charge current = faster charge
5. from 2.5 to 4 times better capacity per kg for LFP
...
then you can’t simple compare Watt-hours cost of two different technologies.
 

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