Noob question...how is the storage for Active backup decided

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Noob question...how is the storage for Active backup decided

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Hi, I can't seem to find this in the manual although I am speed-scanning...

I went round yesterday and installed the agent on 13 devices. That was meant to be part 1 of a 'satged' approach and today I was going to see how they backup, how long it takes etc and gather as much information before creating templates/policies etc

What I hadn't planned on is the default template attempting to back up at 3am for all devices so when I logged in this morning I'm met with a few successful backups and then multiple failures as the NAS has run out of space (lol). This was the reason I was doing it in parts so i could juggle the space already being used by Windows backups...I guess I've inadvertently jumped in at the deep end. So, couple of questions:

1. It seems to have created it's very own storage pool called ActiveBackupForBusiness. It seems to exist in the first volume which has run out of space...but I do have other volumes available. How do I tell it where to store the backup data...or can it only exist on the one volume?

2. Of the backups it's already done and, dependent on the answer to the above question, can they be moved and used for the subsequent backups it is gonig to want to do tomorrow? Or should I delete and start again...and how do I do that other than delete them using File Manager?

Thanks

Dan
 

fredbert

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Any shared folder can be moved to a different volume by editing its settings in Control Panel...
1611226206268.png


Provided the other volume is suitable then DSM will manage the move itself.

As for the ABB tasks, you can go in and edit each PC/server's settings and schedule. This is what I eventually settled on and have updated the default PC template to match:
1611226377728.png

1611226395759.png


Plus I have gone into each PC's version list and locked the initial backup:
1611226505257.png


My one issue has been with the SSL certificate. As with some other packages, ABB has two parts: sync server using specific TCP port; ABB web portal. Be sure you create a signed SSL certificate for the sync server and the domain name you use to access it. If this isn't trusted for domain name/SAN then when ever you come to renew it the PC agents will silently fail to backup.
 
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Thanks Fredbert, that's really useful.

Based on what you've shared, ActiveBackup can only exist on the one volume? If so I'm going to run out of space as I have three volumes currently:

V1: 4tb (2 x 4tb drives RAID1)
V2: 4tb (2 x 4tb drives RAID1)
V3: 2tb (2 x 2tb drives RAID1)

but the total Active Backup data is going to go past the 4 terabyte limit on my current volumes setup. It's been so long since I set the diskstation up but can a volume span multiple physical disks? I think I may need to destroy the current storage pool to do what I think I need to do but not sure what happens with the existing data unless I copy it externally and start again...
 

fredbert

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Based on your DS1815+ here's the spec with Btrfs update says it is also supported (hence you being able to install ABB!)

Supported RAID Type: Synology Hybrid RAID (SHR), Basic, JBOD, RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 6, RAID 10

If you opted for RAID 1 then you can expand to RAID 5 and add a third, or more, disks.

For instance you could remove volume 2 and then expand volume 1 to RAID 5 with the two released disks.


Don't you have two spare bays to add more drives? For RAID you'll need to match the size already used or lose a bigger disk's extra storage. With SHR you can add bigger disks and when there are two bigger the whole extra size will be available.
 

Rusty

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can a volume span multiple physical disks
That's RAID, so yes it can.

I think I may need to destroy the current storage pool to do what I think I need to do but not sure what happens with the existing data unless I copy it externally and start again...
If you destroy the volume you lose the data, so yes, you will need to back it up 1st.

Your current setup (RAID1 arrays) can be converted to RAID5 for more storage but mixing it with different size drives will not give you the desired space. You will best be with SHR setup (starting with smaller drives and then adding bigger ones) to maximize your space. Ofc any RAID# array cant be converted to SHR, so you will have to (in your case) destroy 2 volumes to make one larger one, or convert one RAID1 (2x4) to RAID5 for more space, but not with smaller disks.
 
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OK thanks for that. Just re-appraising my knowledge of RAID...if I go with the suggestion to bin volume 2 to release 2 x 4tb drives, how mcuh actual space do I have to work with when used with the 2 x 4tb in volume 1. Sorry if this is a bit of a thickie question, my world has been RAID1 for about 20 years now....!
 

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OK thanks for that. Just re-appraising my knowledge of RAID...if I go with the suggestion to bin volume 2 to release 2 x 4tb drives, how mcuh actual space do I have to work with when used with the 2 x 4tb in volume 1. Sorry if this is a bit of a thickie question, my world has been RAID1 for about 20 years now....!
Little less than 12TB in RAID5 (vol1 converted from RAID1 to RAID5 with 4x4TB configuration). One drive will be redundancy and 3x4TB will be usable space. With BTRFS on top of that, about 11-11,5TB usable space.
 
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Thanks, plenty then...may go for that over the SHR variant. Apologies for the dufus questions. As a one man IT band I find myself struggling to RTFM in a meaningful time so thankful for the timely responses on here.
 
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Thanks, I was meaning as a storage pool i.e. 4 + 4 = 8 terabytes, that sort of thing. I'm a bit more up to speed now!
 
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Right, bit of an update. I got the RAID version wrong, somehow I actually have:

V1: 4tb (2 x 4tb drives RAID1)
V2: 4tb (2 x 4tb drives SHR)
V3: 2tb (2 x 2tb drives RAID1)

I don't think I was paying attention to consistency when volume 2 was built.

So now I have the option of building on the SHR in volume 2 or trashing it and use it for RAID5 alongside volume 1. Not sure which is most desirable as RAID5 and SHR are new to me but there is a lot more ubiquity around RAID5 usage. Advice?

The other thing that is puzzling is, half the backups failed as it had run out of space on the NAS. Volume 1's space (4tb) is now completely consumed. However, when I go to File Station and right click the ActiveBackupforBusiness folder, it calculates 7.74 terabytes used..which is impossible on the volume it is using..or any volume/storage pool on the NAS for that matter. Is that a glitch in the reporting or is it somehow storing it elsewhere?
 
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Lastly for today as I'm about to go home, I have just freed enough space on Volume one to squeeze a few more Active Business backups on so I can see how much space I need vs how much I have.

I am partially through two Windows 10 client backups having launched them from the task list list in in active backup -great. However, my two Windows 2012 servers listed (listed as PCs) will not backup at all, it will start and then fail almost immediately. The logs aren't telling me anything other than it starts and then fails a few seconds later. When it was a space problem it tells you but this has no information. The backup agent is running on the server but all that shows is the failures, no other information. Any ideas?

Thanks

Dan
 

Rusty

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So now I have the option of building on the SHR in volume 2 or trashing it and use it for RAID5 alongside volume 1. Not sure which is most desirable as RAID5 and SHR are new to me but there is a lot more ubiquity around RAID5 usage. Advice?
The point is that SHR is a valid option if you will mix drives of various sizes. Period. However, personally, I avoid it because some mid to high-end devices from Syno do not support SHR, rather just conventional RAID types. Meaning if you ever get in a situation that you need to migrate to a better model you might end up in trouble because your SHR array will not be "compatible". Other than that, fire away.

Also, RAID5 with 3+ HDDs vs SHR in the same combination will result in the exact same capacity. The only benefit will be that you can mix multiple sizes and max out your storage space (usable).

Is that a glitch in the reporting or is it somehow storing it elsewhere?
Deduplication.

Any ideas?
Anything useful in servers Event Viewer? Also, check the NAS via SSH on this location:
Code:
/volume1/@Activebackup/log/agent/active-backup-agent.log
as well as
Code:
/volume1/@Activebackup/log/agentless/demon.log

See if those will help with any more info.
 
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Thanks Rusty,

The only thing in the server logs are Audit Failures under security for the NAS, which would indicate an authentication problem between the servers and the NAS. The agent is running and when I edit the connection it connects fine so maybe something is going on at a deeper level I can't see yet.

As to the SSH into the NAS, the directory structure is different, when I get to volume1 I have these folders:

Client Backups - my existing Windows backups
ActiveBackupforBusiness
@tmp
@eaDir
@autoupdate
@database
@iSCSI

If I go to the ActiveBackupforBusiness folder I have this:

ActiveBackupData
@Activebackup
@eaDir

Is there some logging I'm meant to enable to make the log/agent folders show up?
 

Rusty

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Is there some logging I'm meant to enable to make the log/agent folders show up?
What DSM version are you running?

What's inside this @Activebackup folder?

Do you have multiple volumes? If so, are you looking at the correct volume?
 
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OK, this is confusing. Under volume 3 I have those folders and it is writing to the log when I manually launch a backup.

The second daemon log does not have anything written to it since the 20th (2 days ago) but the active-backup-agent.log shows this:

Code:
Jan 22 09:57:39 [INFO] service-control.cpp:451(15314,139659700143872) job add success, job content: {"action":1,"backup_type":2,"job_id":32,"job_type":1,"max_parallel":1,"params":{"device_id":10},"pid":419,"status":8,"storage_id":1,"task_id":10,"trigger_uid":1026}
Jan 22 09:57:39 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1939(15313,139658579146496) running task start, running task id: 32, task id: 10, device_id: 10, job id: 32
Jan 22 09:57:39 [INFO] client-trigger-handler.cpp:735(15314,139659700143872) updateBackupTask task id: 10, running_task_id: 32, job_id: 32, Job::Action: 1, DataFormat: 1, job_params: null
, trigger_type: 1, trigger_event: 0
Jan 22 09:57:42 [INFO] backup-handler.cpp:53(15314,139658981799680) In handler '13BackupHandler' with action 'backup'.
Jan 22 09:57:42 [INFO] backup-handler.cpp:54(15314,139658981799680)      request is {"action": "backup", "agent": {"version": {"build": "1125", "major": 2, "mini": 1, "minor": 1}}, "ds_id": "7a71403d-ad3c-4895-a3ee-6da3ece84238", "result_id": 35, "running_task_id": 32, "status": "error", "subaction": "check_complete", "token": "79a8a45a9a65783303842c0503ce2bef"}
Jan 22 09:57:42 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:733(15313,139658579146496) RunningTaskMonitor:: get Running task 32 not in map
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] service-control.cpp:472(15313,139659216664320) ServiceRemoveJobByJobId: 32
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1362(15313,139659216664320) === Transfer Performance ===
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1363(15313,139659216664320)      duration_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1364(15313,139659216664320)      transfer_duration_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1365(15313,139659216664320)      snapshot_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1366(15313,139659216664320)      read_disk_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1367(15313,139659216664320)      send_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1368(15313,139659216664320)      dedup_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [INFO] running-task-monitor.cpp:1369(15313,139659216664320)      write_ns 0.000000
Jan 22 09:57:43 [ERROR] event_handler.cpp:67(15313,139659216664320) AfterVersion Finish: Not Success, status[4]

Maybe I was wrong previously with where I thought Active Backup is physically storing the data...
-- post merged: --

What DSM version are you running?
6.2.3 and yes, wrong volume it seems :rolleyes:
-- post merged: --

And it does confuse me that ActiveBackup IS on volume 1 (after checking the Control Panel and it's shared folder settings) yet its logs are stored under volume3 logs in the NAS.
 

Rusty

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And it does confuse me that ActiveBackup IS on volume 1 (after checking the Control Panel and it's shared folder settings) yet its logs are stored under volume3 logs in the NAS.
Did you target Vol3 when you initiated the install? AB install destination doesn't have to be the same as its data folder

active-backup-agent.log shows this
Perfect example to send it to Syno support. They will make the most of this log and its error codes.

Anything on the Win side regarding errors? In Event viewer maybe?
 
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Thanks Rusty, no just Failed Audit in the security log.

I never told Activebackup to target volume3, I don't remember it asking and wouldn't put it there anyway as it only has 2 terabytes which is rather short of the amount required.

I'll open up a Synology ticket and see what they say.
 
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Hi DHSW, sorry to hear about your woes with ABB, it can be a bit tricky. I would certainly recommend setting up templates prior to attempting any backups, the default template is set to back up all drives and external drives on PC to be backed up. So if you are running shared drives across all computers from your server then you will be backing the same data 13 times, when just the server backup will be doing this. When you configure the template, you can select the volume / folder to backup to also. ABB can run either 5 or 10 backups concurrently (I can't remember off hand CBA to look) and after the initial backup, shouldn't take more than a few mins per backup per PC, so the failures should be a non event in future.

I have been playing with this for a while now, initially was just using it to roll out a standard win 10 image to all company PC's so wasnt paying much attention to the template side of things but recently have started using it for proper backing up.

The thing that stands out about your issues firstly is space. I have 34 images of PC's (not being backed up) and 2 PC's being backed up daily and have yet to exceed 1Tb. Each image is 47Gb when restored, so deduplication does work.

Anyway, are you running shared drives from server on all PC's that are being backed up every time? Also, you would need template for servers as you choose what you are backing up in the template and the default template is PC not server
 
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Hi BiggPerci, thanks for the repsonse. Yeah, I'm slowly getting my head around the deduplication and it's space saving consequences which may be making me overestimate things as I've been battling with space and simple native Windows images/backups for a while now...this is radically 'different' and a game changer. I've probably got way too much redundant space now across all these drives....

I hadn't thought about the default settings and shares, I'll lok a bit more closely at that.

I'll also have a fiddle with a separate template for the server although I don't know if that's what's causing it to bomb out...I'll give that a go and report back.
 

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