RAM for DS1621+

[BoosterT]

So I bit the bullet and ordered the DS1621+ to upgrade from my older DS916+ ... the NAS comes with only 4g RAM (shame on Synology) ... adding another 8g ECC module is over $200 US. Does anyone have source to look at compatible memory that would be less expensive?

thanks ... Stephen

 

[Robbie]

non ECC ram will not work in a ECC spec syno. Tested it myself.

Also tested this but with success.

Not doubting your test Rusty as this may be an Intel vs AMD thing with Intel clinging to their artificial demarcation between Xeon and the rest of its cpus - AMD tends to be more flexible.

 

[optical10]

So glad I came across this forum and thread, I was about to go down the wrong mem route. Before I decide I have a question, doesn't the 1621+ require "Dual Rank" memory only, so how are some here installing odd sizes and odd manu's sticks?

I'm looking to purchase "Kingston KSM26SED8/16HD 16GB DDR4 2666Mhz ECC Unbuffered Memory RAM SODIMM" if dual rank is required but I'll lose 4GB so i would be nice to know if I can just add a single "Kingston Server Premier KSM26SES8/16ME. like Jono to make 20GB.

Thanks

 

[jono]

like Jono to make 20GB.

Actually I bought 2 of those, to make 32MB.

 

[optical10]

Actually I bought 2 of those, to make 32MB.

I see, good to know thanks. Still I see they're both "Single Rank" according to Kingston here.

-- post merged: 27. Apr 2021 --

Did more digging on Dual vs Single rank here "Memory For Your NAS – Crucial RAM For Your Synology And QNAP Guide", and it looks like it matters.

 

[Robbie]

Before I decide I have a question, doesn't the 1621+ require "Dual Rank" memory only, so how are some here installing odd sizes and odd manu's sticks?

Before we get lost in the permutations of experience vs specifications vs artificial vendor lock it is worth reading back a little to find that the vendor check is currently running inconsistently. It only runs at cold boot too, so whatever people are running it may take many months before the memory warning comes up.

For some the warning will never 'display' as they don't have that notification set in DSM - but when detected it will be recorded and if found give problems when it comes to tech support and warranty.

Dual-rank memory is a physical form-factor not to confused with dual-channel, where identical pairs of sticks are run together for increased memory bandwidth. Synology has pushed the idea that dual-rank should only be used for 2666MT/s and above for stability. Maybe this was once true where 2666 was the new memory on the block, but it isn't a thing now yet Synology sticks with it out of habit.

From this bit onwards I will stick with how the Synology vendor-lock works which has little to do with the physical system's technical requirements. We have to call it for what it is - anticompetitive behaviour of the sort that breeches UK and EU law that unfairly targets other vendors of what is a commodity part.

As to specifics, the Synology code deliberately targets and blacklists by name any memory made by Kingston, Transcend and a few others, now and forever.

Synology also blacklists any single-rank memory at 2666MT/s and above, but as Synology 'makes' 2 DRAM modules that are single-rank and run at 2666 there are 2 specified exceptions. Incidentally those 2 exceptions are actually made by 2 different OEMs that would otherwise be blacklisted. Go figure.

One of the other locks circles back to 2666MT/s memory. If it is above or below 2666MT/s it will be flagged. This is despite the fact that faster memory will always run at a lower speed and that the Ryzen CPU is capped at 2400MT/s. So Synology's 2666MT/s is running down-clocked at 2400MT/s and Synology's own (older) 2400MT/s RAM will also trigger the vendor lock.

Presumably Synology is banking on customer inertia and their small scale to avoid a court case.

It was not always this way, using my DS1517+ as an example, the memory compatibility settings were very simple, albeit they did dip a toe in the water by setting an artificial max RAM limit of 16GB:

{"success":1,"list":[{"model_number":"RAM1600DDR3L-4GBx2","recommend":true},{"model_number":"RAM1600DDR3L-8GBx2","recommend":true}],"nas_model":"ds1517+"}

 

[optical10]

Before we get lost in the permutations of experience vs specifications vs artificial vendor lock it is worth reading back a little to find that the vendor check is currently running inconsistently. It only runs at cold boot too, so whatever people are running it may take many months before the memory warning comes up.

For some the warning will never 'display' as they don't have that notification set in DSM - but when detected it will be recorded and if found give problems when it comes to tech support and warranty.

Dual-rank memory is a physical form-factor not to confused with dual-channel, where identical pairs of sticks are run together for increased memory bandwidth. Synology has pushed the idea that dual-rank should only be used for 2666MT/s and above for stability. Maybe this was once true where 2666 was the new memory on the block, but it isn't a thing now yet Synology sticks with it out of habit.

From this bit onwards I will stick with how the Synology vendor-lock works which has little to do with the physical system's technical requirements. We have to call it for what it is - anticompetitive behaviour of the sort that breeches UK and EU law that unfairly targets other vendors of what is a commodity part.

As to specifics, the Synology code deliberately targets and blacklists by name any memory made by Kingston, Transcend and a few others, now and forever.

Synology also blacklists any single-rank memory at 2666MT/s and above, but as Synology 'makes' 2 DRAM modules that are single-rank and run at 2666 there are 2 specified exceptions. Incidentally those 2 exceptions are actually made by 2 different OEMs that would otherwise be blacklisted. Go figure.

One of the other locks circles back to 2666MT/s memory. If it is above or below 2666MT/s it will be flagged. This is despite the fact that faster memory will always run at a lower speed and that the Ryzen CPU is capped at 2400MT/s. So Synology's 2666MT/s is running down-clocked at 2400MT/s and Synology's own (older) 2400MT/s RAM will also trigger the vendor lock.

Presumably Synology is banking on customer inertia and their small scale to avoid a court case.

It was not always this way, using my DS1517+ as an example, the memory compatibility settings were very simple, albeit they did dip a toe in the water by setting an artificial max RAM limit of 16GB:

{"success":1,"list":[{"model_number":"RAM1600DDR3L-4GBx2","recommend":true},{"model_number":"RAM1600DDR3L-8GBx2","recommend":true}],"nas_model":"ds1517+"}

Thanks for the info, looks like its not cut-n-dry so, great more research needed and that's before the non-ECC vs ECC debate!
My Qnap TS563 isnt as fussy on Ram but Syn DS418 didn't let me down and I prefered its functionality, interface etc., looking forward to the DS1621+ once I sort Ram & 10Gb NIC upgrade.

 

[Robbie]

Functionally both ECC and non-ECC memory will work in the Ryzen-equipped DS1621+.

 

[optical10]

Functionally both ECC and non-ECC memory will work in the Ryzen-equipped DS1621+.

cheers for quick reply, I'll backtrack to lock down others working parts now im more clued in.

 

[Robbie]

As an interesting aside - when the new 21+ series were launched and directed to the usual review sites / influencers the memory-compatibility / vendor lock was not in place. Just something Synology added afterwards...

 

[optical10]

I see, that makes now, thanks

-- post merged: 27. Apr 2021 --

Before we get lost in the permutations of experience vs specifications vs artificial vendor lock it is worth reading back a little to find that the vendor check is currently running inconsistently. It only runs at cold boot too, so whatever people are running it may take many months before the memory warning comes up.

For some the warning will never 'display' as they don't have that notification set in DSM - but when detected it will be recorded and if found give problems when it comes to tech support and warranty.
So Synology's 2666MT/s is running down-clocked at 2400MT/s and Synology's own (older) 2400MT/s RAM will also trigger the vendor lock.

-- post merged: 27. Apr 2021 --

So with with the down-clock knowledge im thinking of increasing from 16GB 2666MT/s to 32GB 2400MT/s here, do you see any disadvantages?

Crucial CT2K16G4SFD824A 32 GB Kit (16 GB x2) (DDR4, 2400 MT/s, PC4-19200, Dual Rank x8, SODIMM, 260-Pin) Memory​

 

[BoosterT]

Just to muddy the waters a bit .. I'm running with 20gb ... I replaced one of the 4g that came with the DS1621+ with a 16gb module and it has no issues. The chip I bought is linked below. It is a dual-rank chip

Arch Memory Replacement for Synology D4ECSO-2666-16G 16 GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 260-Pin ECC So-dimm RAM: Amazon.ca: Electronics

Arch Memory Replacement for Synology D4ECSO-2666-16G 16 GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 260-Pin ECC So-dimm RAM: Amazon.ca: Electronics

www.amazon.ca

I would stay away from Crucial ... I *always* get the warning with the 16gb Crucial I have in an older NAS.

 

[optical10]

Just found this months guide using 2400Mhz "Synology DS1621+ NAS – 32GB & 64GB Unofficial Memory Upgrade Guide"

 

[BoosterT]

Interesting ... at the bottom of the list NAS Compares gives is the Arch module I bought ... it is ECC and dual-rank ... to best of my knowledge, one shouldn't mix non-ECC and ECC modules.

 

[optical10]

Just to muddy the waters a bit .. I'm running with 20gb ... I replaced one of the 4g that came with the DS1621+ with a 16gb module and it has no issues. The chip I bought is linked below. It is a dual-rank chip

Arch Memory Replacement for Synology D4ECSO-2666-16G 16 GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 260-Pin ECC So-dimm RAM: Amazon.ca: Electronics

Arch Memory Replacement for Synology D4ECSO-2666-16G 16 GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 260-Pin ECC So-dimm RAM: Amazon.ca: Electronics

www.amazon.ca

I would stay away from Crucial ... I *always* get the warning with the 16gb Crucial I have in an older NAS.

Muddying always appreciated if knowledge improved wihich as a retired I.T. manager saved my bacon many a time, let me tell you.

 

[Robbie]

Sadly Arch memory has not made it to the UK yet - seems to be a North America thing.

 

[optical10]

Just installed 2 x Kingston Technology ValueRAM KCP426SD8/16, 2R (Dual Rank), ECC Unbuffered £63.99 each Used from Amazon uk .
Will report back if issues arise whilst testing.
The supplier has been on Amazon since 2010 and does also offer new ram.
By the way I got my 1621+ from NewEgg dot com , imported due to great price £732 vs UK best £792 box dot co uk, plus FREE UK shipping at the moment for those non owners looking here like i did before purchase.

 

[Robbie]

@optical10 Feedback will be great and we can show you where to look regarding the vendor lock and where to read the memory information once you get to the testing.

With Kingston RAM the presumption is that this line in DSM will be the first hurdle:

{"model_number":"Blacklist","recommend":true,"manufacturer":"[\"Kingston\",\"Transcend\",\"0198\",\"014F\"]"}

______

 

[saber]

A data point for my DS 1621+, I just upgraded it to 32GB RAM using the Arch Memory (D4ECSO-2666-16G) modules found on Amazon. It recognized it no problems and did not give me any nagging about incompatible RAM.

 

[Phone Guy]

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. Will the 2400 16gb ecc synology branded so-dimm ram work in a ds1621+?

Synology D4ECSO-2400-16G