Redoing install w/smaller drives (14TB) instead of 18TB so I can expand...

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Redoing install w/smaller drives (14TB) instead of 18TB so I can expand...

jann

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Hello, all. First post so forgive me if I either go into too much detail or too little.
I was the victim of bad pre-purchase instructions from a tech at Synology.
I have a Drobo 5c with 5 drives. 14TB, 14TB, 12TB, 10TB, 10TB.
I wanted a Synology DS1520+ (which I bought) and it was suggested by the tech support guy that I buy 2 of the larges EXOS drives I could afford now, install them, start a partial copy from my Drobo until I could begin removing the 14tb drives as my space needs declined, then insert those into my 1520+ and expand the SHR1 storage pool.
I know know - according to someone ELSE at tech support, that was the exact WRONG thing to do. I should've bought those 18's, replaced the 14's in the Drobo with that, did the initial install on my 1520+ with the 14TB's, then add the 18TB's when all the data was moved and the pool could expand.

SO, I am stuck with EITHER:
A: Buying two more 18tb's and putting them in the 1520 with the current 2 18TB's and forgetting all the other drives ($950 ... NOT gonna happen)
B: starting a separate pool (and volume) with the 2 14TB's, copying across the data, killing all the apps (plex, etc) and things that were on that pool, then re-adding the 18TB's to the 14TB's cos the 18TB's are larger and they SHOULD allow the SHR1 pool to expand.
C: leave the current system as-is, add the 14TB's in a separate pool AND volume (but this would require me to split my data and be congnizant of where everything is at all times...)

BUT some on here have said you can replace larger drives with smaller drives if you purposefully "fail" one of the two 18TB's drives in the pool, replace it with the 14TB AS LONG as the space-in-use is less than the 11.xTB the 14tb would net me, then the space will shrink to the capacity of the 14TB drive, then add another 14TB drive back after it heals, then add the 18 again and it should balance.

Is this correct? or am I screwed? (sorry... this has been a bad week!)

If I not correct, is there an easy way to back up all the "installed" apps - Plex is the only one I'm really concerned about ) and settings from a storage pool to - say - a usb c drive, so I can recreate the storage pool with the right information on it and drives in place?

Thanks!
I would so appreciate help if someone knows more about finessing storage pools than I do. I'm good at tech, but new to the Synology game.

ps: I did see this post: Replacing a large drive with a smaller drive in SHR-1 but they didn't do what I did and want to further add disks...

BTW: did anyone try to use this method to copy and re-link package? Synology - Moving a package between volumes - vEducate.co.uk
Jann
 
Solution
So you have 2x18 TB presently... and 3 empty slots? Yes?

And you have less than 12 TB on the 2x18 TB array?

If so, create a new SHR pool with 2x14 TB, then relocate the shared folders to the new pool/volume. When complete, delete the 18 TB pool. Reformat those drives (externally) and then add them to the 2x14TB pool. With SHR, you should have then 14+14+18= 46 TB (approx)

With more than 12 TB (but less than 20 TB) on the 2x18 TB array, pull one of the 18 TB drives and create a new SHR pool with that along with the 2x14 TB drives. Then relocate... etc. per above

Telos

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So you have 2x18 TB presently... and 3 empty slots? Yes?

And you have less than 12 TB on the 2x18 TB array?

If so, create a new SHR pool with 2x14 TB, then relocate the shared folders to the new pool/volume. When complete, delete the 18 TB pool. Reformat those drives (externally) and then add them to the 2x14TB pool. With SHR, you should have then 14+14+18= 46 TB (approx)

With more than 12 TB (but less than 20 TB) on the 2x18 TB array, pull one of the 18 TB drives and create a new SHR pool with that along with the 2x14 TB drives. Then relocate... etc. per above
 
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Solution

fredbert

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Welcome to the forum.

If it was me having to do this then I'd create a new storage pool and volume with the 14TB drives then systematically work through moving packages. Have a read and see what really needs doing with the packages you have.

Yes, you then would have to go into Control Panel -> Shared Folder and select each folder and the select the new volume to be its location.
1628540646270.png

I've only one volume on my DS1520+ so this screenshot isn't as useful.

As you've identified that's the easy bit. The harder bit is the packages...

Next I'd go through each package and check to see if there is a setting for configuration/database that enables it to be moved to the new volume: i.e. a setting like the one for shared folders. So move any to the new volume.

Also, for Plex I'd then work through the libraries and change each folder path. Interestingly, Plex settings are in the Plex shared folder, not hidden away, so this is one you can do quite easily even if you have to uninstall and reinstall the package itself.

Once you have a second volume you can select it as the default location in Package Center's Settings. Then I would do a Hyper Backup of package configurations. And the work through each package:
  1. Uninstall
  2. Reinstall on new volume (new default volume).
  3. HB restore of package's configuration.
The trickier ones are those that require HB to backup an associated shared folder. But maybe you just have to suck it and do it too.


There are ways to move the packages using SSH command line and from what I saw it seems okay, but I've never done it myself.
 
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jann

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So you have 2x18 TB presently... and 3 empty slots? Yes?

And you have less than 12 TB on the 2x18 TB array?

If so, create a new SHR pool with 2x14 TB, then relocate the shared folders to the new pool/volume. When complete, delete the 18 TB pool. Reformat those drives (externally) and then add them to the 2x14TB pool. With SHR, you should have then 14+14+18= 46 TB (approx)

With more than 12 TB (but less than 20 TB) on the 2x18 TB array, pull one of the 18 TB drives and create a new SHR pool with that along with the 2x14 TB drives. Then relocate... etc. per above
First, thanks for the fast response!

Okay, so then I am assuming my "fail one then replace" wouldn't work...

ARGH!
I don't wanna lose my Plex paths and settings again! (I had to manually transfer them THEN deal with the building of the jpgs for chapter scenes etc...days of work after moving from my mac w/old drobo to synology).

Okay, I'll pull and fail an 18TB...which puts the Volume 1's storage pool into degraded mode with the current data on it still - leaving the first 18TB in slot 1 of the 1520+.
Then take the 2 14TB's and the one 18TB (which I would externally format so synology doesn't think it's part of an existing pool, right?) and insert those into slots 2,3,4 and tell the system to build a new storage pool and volume with that. Then move the shared folders to new 3-disk storage pool made up of 14,14, and 18. When the move is done, format, remove storage pool containing single drive (18tb). Format THAT one from the old pool externally and add that to the new storage pool I just created, right? This should now make a single volume storage pool of 14, 14, 18, and 18, that I could then put an 18 as hotswap in slot 5 later for fail-over, right?

Couple of questions: Using command-line can I rsync between the mount-point of volume1 of the old storage pool and volume# of the new storage pool or do I have to take the data off synology (rsync) over the network, then back on to new volume of new storage pool. Obv syncing between mount points would be so much faster

Also, in moving the shared folder locations, does that just move the mount point? ie: do I copy the data first, then change the mount points as FB said?

Thanks again for the fast response, Telos & fredbert!

PS: It is my FERVENT hope that Synology makes a sticker saying "If you intend to use SHR-1 with multiple-sized-drives on the same storage pool, PLEASE start the storage pool with the smaller of the drives and add the larger ones." and sticks that on the front of the darned Synology.

If I hadn't read a lot of the forums I wouldn't have knows this could even BE a problem. Many new users of Synology are ex-drobo users whose company isn't making devices anymore - and wrongly or not, we're equating SHR-1/2 with BeyondRaid which doesn't care where different-sized-drives go! :eek:
 
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Rusty

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Also, in moving the shared folder locations, does that just move the mount point? ie: do I copy the data first, then change the mount points as FB said?
It will move the actual day as well you don’t have to do anything else.

This should now make a single volume storage pool of 14, 14, 18, and 18, that I could then put an 18 as hotswap in slot 5 later for fail-over, right?
Correct to the letter

Using command-line can I rsync between the mount-point of volume1 of the old storage pool and volume# of the new storage pool or do I have to take the data off synology (rsync) over the network, then back on to new volume of new storage pool.
you can use internal volume transfers, yes. no need to copy it off syno.

It is my FERVENT hope that Synology makes a sticker
True that. This should be also pointed on their raid calculator site as well. You are not the first or the last person that got into this mess because of it.
 
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jann

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True that. This should be also pointed on their raid calculator site as well. You are not the first or the last person that got into this mess because of it.
I wonder if I can bill them my normal rate for network configuration for the time I'm spending on this 'cos they didn't tell us? :cautious: ::heh::
 
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Rusty

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Telos

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I don't wanna lose my Plex paths and settings again!
I don't see a way around this. But your metadata should be preserved. Also... if on DSM6, be sure to relocate your Plex shared folder. You may not see it initially with even admin privileges... that is intentional, as it is not a folder for your use.

... and if you are now using DSM6, you can look forward to some fun Plex gymnastics to undergo when you migrate to DSM7.

Okay, I'll pull and fail an 18TB...which puts the Volume 1's storage pool into degraded mode with the current data on it still - leaving the first 18TB in slot 1 of the 1520+.
Then take the 2 14TB's and the one 18TB (which I would externally format so synology doesn't think it's part of an existing pool, right?) and insert those into slots 2,3,4 and tell the system to build a new storage pool and volume with that. Then move the shared folders to new 3-disk storage pool made up of 14,14, and 18. When the move is done, format, remove storage pool containing single drive (18tb). Format THAT one from the old pool externally and add that to the new storage pool I just created, right? This should now make a single volume storage pool of 14, 14, 18, and 18, that I could then put an 18 as hotswap in slot 5 later for fail-over, right?
This should be fine. I personally would not add a hot swap drive, unless you lack regular, physical access to the unit.

"If you intend to use SHR-1 with multiple-sized-drives on the same storage pool, PLEASE start the storage pool with the smaller of the drives and add the larger ones."
They sorta kinda say that... :giggle:

fTrqxZ2.png
 
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jann

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They sorta kinda say that...

fTrqxZ2.png
::sigh:: not said in any first-run docs ::heh::!
To search a knowledge-base on how to add a drive is not the place I'd think to go on first-setup. ;)

Anyway, I know you were being nice. Here I go into the great beyond of correcting a problem I only made for myself.

I will follow up with success/failure on this thread. I've seen a lot of "just do this" and the OP doesn't answer back saying "Great, that fixed it!"
 
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jann

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So, @Telos or @Rusty, one question before I pull this 18TB (I'm almost done copying my data to the new storage pool): I am *assuming* (and I know what assuming does btw)...When I finish copying my data, moving the Plex shared folder to volume2, moving the homes shared folders, un-installing un-needed apps, and copying the Plex install from /volume1/@appstore to /volume2/@appstore via:
Code:
# Move the app files from the old volume to the desired one.
sudo mv /volume1/@appstore/[app_name] /volume2/@appstore/

# Delete the obsolete Symlink pointing at the old app path
sudo rm -fv /var/packages/[app_name]/target

# Create a new Sim link pointing at the new, correct app path.
sudo ln -s /volume2/@appstore/[app_name] /var/packages/[app_name]/target
(I found this by searching the forums)

I'm assuming DSM is on all storage pools, so when i do all this, I can just remove the storage pool for volume1, shutdown the Synology, remove the 18tb that held volume1's storage pool, so all that is left is the storage pool for volume2. I'm assuming the Synology will correctly restart, using volume2 as the "boot volume" and i can reformat the 18 and add it to the volume2's storage pool, right?

Please say it's so. Please say they're smart enough to have gracefully failed to use the next storage pool in line with a duplicate DSM install... 🙏

TIA

Jann
 
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Telos

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Just a clarification... When you say...
I'm almost done copying my data to the new storage pool
I trust you have done this by changing the shared folder "location" under Control Panel/Shared Folder/Edit, as opposed to conventional file copy/move. If so, good.

I can just remove the storage pool for volume1
Actually, you can simply shut down the NAS and remove the drives associated with pool/volume 1 and restart.
I'm assuming DSM is on all storage pools
"Correct". More accurately, DSM does not reside within the storage pool, but has its own drive partition, which is mirrored across each drive. If a drive fails, the OS will be read from an alternate drive.
 
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Rusty

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When I finish copying my data, moving the Plex shared folder to volume2, moving the homes shared folders, un-installing un-needed apps, and copying the Plex install from /volume1/@appstore to /volume2/@appstore via:
I wouldn't do Plex that way. Moving before uninstalling might be a problem. Consult the KB for more details: Move an Install to Another System | Plex Support
 
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jann

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I wouldn't do Plex that way. Moving before uninstalling might be a problem. Consult the KB for more details: Move an Install to Another System | Plex Support
I meant I'd shut Plex down, do the move, (and yes, move the Plex shared folder (via the shared folder manager) to the new volume). The doc you referenced says all Plex settings are on the shared folder anyway, so I shouldn't need to do all this but I intend to back up the Plex Shared Folder as well, just in case.

if that doesn't work (ie my ssh commands) then i'll uninstall plex app - keeping the shared folder, and reinstall, hoping the Plex Shared Folder really does hold everything.
 
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jann

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I trust you have done this by changing the shared folder "location" under Control Panel/Shared Folder/Edit, as opposed to conventional file copy/move. If so, good.
Exactly. Actually SOME of what was in that shared folder I had wanted moved to a diff folder separate shared folder, so I created new shared folder on volume2, then rsync'd them cos I wasn't sure if copying via File Station kept the modification times and I needed that.
Other than that, yes, I went into shared folder settings and changed the volume like @fredbert suggested.

Thanks!
-- post merged: --

It does. Just wanted to make it clear how you can do it "the right" way as Plex expects it. Good luck!
Okay, I'll shut down plex, move Plex Shared Folder, reinstall plex on new volume the normal way via package center.

I'm used to macOS Plex which tosses it's settings files everywhere...I don't trust them to do things the "right way" sometimes 😉.
 
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jann

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Wow! Moving the Plex shared folder with DSM open is really slow! (~500kb-5MB/s: ~1.5 days)
When I close DSM, wait a minute and open back up it is running (200MB/s ~34 minutes)...then slows down again when I keep it open.

I am glad I read something on the boards about closing the DSM web page when moving shared folders!
 
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Rusty

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Wow! Moving the Plex shared folder with DSM open is really slow! (~500kb-5MB/s: ~1.5 days)
When I close DSM, wait a minute and open back up it is running (200MB/s ~34 minutes)...then slows down again when I keep it open.

I am glad I read something on the boards about closing the DSM web page when moving shared folders!
Also, a large number of small files doesn't help. The reason why Plex advises to compress the content before the move, but doesn't apply in your particular case.
 
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jann

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Also, a large number of small files doesn't help. The reason why Plex advises to compress the content before the move, but doesn't apply in your particular case.
Well, the Plex dir finally moved to /volume2/ ... 1.5 hours for 287G.
Also, I remembered to go in to Settings->Scheduled Tasks->Backup Path and change:
Code:
/volume1/Plex/Library/Application Support/Plex Media Server/Plug-in Support/Databases
to
Code:
/volume2/Plex/Library/Application Support/Plex Media Server/Plug-in Support/Databases
Cos Plex still had the volume# path hardcoded.

I checked and there doesn't seem anything else hardcoded in the Plex interface, so my next step is (per @Telos) to just shut down, pull the old volume1's 18tb drive (that is the last drive in the storage pool) so then the Synology will only have drives for storage pool volume2 in the 1520+'s case, then start up the Synology, after which DSM should boot from one of the images on the disks in volume2's storage pool...right? (wincing).

I am assuming that there will also be no apps except the plain DSM6 install. Then I change default install to /volume2, and reinstall Plex. Then it should find it's "Plex" shared folder, and startup...right?

Not doing anything til I get a response - so I don't muck it up. 😉
 
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Telos

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Then I change default install to /volume2, and reinstall Plex. Then it should find it's "Plex" shared folder, and startup...right?
With only one volume present, installed packages will go to volume 2. Try it with an inconsequential Synology package for your own confidence.
 
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jann

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With only one volume present, installed packages will go to volume 2. Try it with an inconsequential Synology package for your own confidence.
Thanks!
 
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