DSM 7.1 Very poor quality playback DS Video on AppleTV for simple HD video files - why?

[Mobbus]

Hi all, I have a DS1821+ on a wired home LAN and a 4th Gen AppleTV HD tvos ver 17.1. No 4K video involved. I have a very large number of videos captured on a digital TV card on HD video in 1920x1080 50hz format (50hz is standard here in Australia, not 60).
I have set up folders and security and libraries in Video Station on DSM and like the simple DS Video interface, especially the multiple libraries for different users, and related security.
However when playing the files using the DS Video app on the AppleTV, it looks like they are all downgraded to nonHD or worse as they are grainy, a bit fuzzy and really painful to watch, it is like going back to VHS. These play perfectly fine using either VLC or Infuse on the AppleTV, but those interfaces I think are very techincal and poor (VLC especially) and lacking Synology security integration. The file formats are simple ts files or mpg or Mk4 files in h.264 format with mp2 or AAC audio. In fact, an mk4 file I created from cutting adverts out of a captured program won't actually show a picture at all. It seems to me that something is doing unwanted transcoding. A speed test shows that Infuse for example to running at >40Mbps so that network speed not a problem.

Would the "darknebular" patch solve this given I am trying to stick with DS Video on the AppleTV? Although I am not really keen on unofficial patches and having to reapply them all the time as DSM updates arrive.
Or is there some setting that could be changed (I have tried many setting combinations on DSM and the few on Appletv to no avail)?

I have the advanced media extensions loaded but don't think those are relevant. I have Shotcut for Windows so can transcode files if really necessary. I also have the Media Server installed and wonder if this is somehow getting involved.
I know many people will say use Plex or Infuse or VLC but surely DS Video can be made to work with simple basic HD video files? Reading all the threads in this topic, none are really complaining about picture quality and the ones with problems are 4K which I don't use.

Any advice welcome, thanks mobbus

EDIT: Tested further and got the same poor quality playing the file using DS Video app on iOS device and also playing it on the Video Station package in DSM itself. I thought maybe the translation to/from btrsf (that is my raid format) could be the problem but if I re-download the file and play it using VLC on Windows then it plays perfectly. So it seems to me ALL instances of playing these files with any of the DSM video players is giving an unsatisfactory result. Is it just me????

 

[fredbert]

When you look at Resource Center can you see if Video Station is taking more resources playing different video formats? Maybe it's transcoding it for its players, regardless of underlying hardware capability.

Did you try with Plex, I have it using the same media folders for its libraries but if you have to manually tag then that would be a pain to redo it. It also needs the Plex Pass if you want to manage users and doesn't have the override PIN feature to allow a user to access othewise blocked content.

The specification info for Video Station, and apps:

Video Station Technical Specifications | Synology Inc.

Video Station lets you manage and watch your video collection—movies, TV shows, home videos, and TV recordings—with intuitive convenience. It provides instant watching by streaming videos to your computers, AirPlay devices, iOS/Android devices, Windows 10 tablets/laptops, Apple TVs, Android TVs...

www.synology.com

Here's the info on supported file formats (it says for pre-2020 NAS, but the linked article for post-2020 is only discussing 4K playback):

Can my Synology NAS convert videos for my device? - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

 

[EAZ1964]

Why use DS video at all? Apple tv can play and decode the video files. Just give acces to the folder on the nas and it should play without issues.

 

[fredbert]

Why use DS video at all? Apple tv can play and decode the video files. Just give acces to the folder on the nas and it should play without issues.

How? AppleTVs use applications to access served content. The build-in TV app still supports Home Sharing to access Apple's desktop iTunes or TV apps. But you need a different app to be able to access network shares, hence @Mobbus using VLC and Infuse. There is no native AppleTV app that accesses network shares.

Having an easier to navigate media 'experience' [sorry for that] is what was missing with the other apps that I think is causing the question 'why is VS and DS video not working?'.

 

[EAZ1964]

Infuse is probably the best app to do this.
But actually, I am not fully up to date anymore as since I have the LG smart TV it reads directly from the nas, I now skip ATV completely.

 

[Mobbus]

When you look at Resource Center can you see if Video Station is taking more resources playing different video formats? Maybe it's transcoding it for its players, regardless of underlying hardware capability.

Did you try with Plex, I have it using the same media folders for its libraries but if you have to manually tag then that would be a pain to redo it. It also needs the Plex Pass if you want to manage users and doesn't have the override PIN feature to allow a user to access othewise blocked content.

The specification info for Video Station, and apps:

Video Station Technical Specifications | Synology Inc.

Video Station lets you manage and watch your video collection—movies, TV shows, home videos, and TV recordings—with intuitive convenience. It provides instant watching by streaming videos to your computers, AirPlay devices, iOS/Android devices, Windows 10 tablets/laptops, Apple TVs, Android TVs...

www.synology.com

Here's the info on supported file formats (it says for pre-2020 NAS, but the linked article for post-2020 is only discussing 4K playback):

Can my Synology NAS convert videos for my device? - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Thanks Fredbert. I find it hard to think that performance is a problem but will have a look. The NAS is hardly used so fully available for processing. I did look at Plex maybe a year ago but it looks complex, you have to pay for it (I believe) and the comments indicated it was really intended for paid streaming sites far more than home network ones. I took away that your own content in Plex was a afterthought. I just installed Infuse on the Appletv and it looks the best option for us if I cannot get DS Video to present a decent image. But it annoys me that it doesn't and if there is a reason why then I want to know what it is!
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How? AppleTVs use applications to access served content. The build-in TV app still supports Home Sharing to access Apple's desktop iTunes or TV apps. But you need a different app to be able to access network shares, hence @Mobbus using VLC and Infuse. There is no native AppleTV app that accesses network shares.

Having an easier to navigate media 'experience' [sorry for that] is what was missing with the other apps that I think is causing the question 'why is VS and DS video not working?'.

Exactly my thoughts, thanks again.

 

[Mobbus]

So I converted a couple of my files using Offline Convert in the DSM Video Station app using "High" Quality and "Default" audio (mp2 according to the file info). I did this mainly to check the resource usage (thanks fredbert for the pointer) - it was 82% of the CPU and it took about 13 minutes to transcode a 1.87GB 1 hour HD video. I was surprised how high the CPU usage was although I did drill down at one point and the ffmpeg was using about 60 to 65% and "DSM" the rest (and I was doing practically nothing in DSM). I suppose it used all available CPU resources and if the NAS had other things to do it would have used less and taken longer.

Then I played the resulting files in Video Station and they were perfect (well just normal HD video resolution)! I rushed down to the Appletv at the other end of the house and the same there. So that is a form of success and it's clear for THESE files that I have got, I NEED the conversion and if it is not done, Video Station and DS Video are doing something else (presumably on the fly as other players work fine) that worsens the quality. That still mystifies me.

This is progress although I am not happy if I have to double-process every file - once in Windows to edit out pre-show and post-show filler by my DTV capture card and remove the many advertisements throughout the shows - and then secondly to Offline Convert them in Video Station resulting in two files there for every video.

Then I tried Offline Conversion on the MK4 file that refuses to play on either Video Station or DS Video and remarkably, the conversion took seconds and the resulting file also plays perfectly. I have yet to understand this. It appears to me that it just copied the file and changed some internal attributes and that was enough to allow it to play. I am astounded by this so will have to do this again to make sure I am not seeing things.

So now I am wondering if I can work out what EXACT format the Synology apps need to playback OK, and see if I can mimic this in my use of the Shotcut program to generate files that play without needing a conversion. I will download the successful files from DSM to windows and see if I can find a program to show me enough technical information about the files to work this out. Superficially (using basic file properties display), the videos I created in Shotcut and some of the originals all report the same attributes (h.264 video and mp2 or AAC video tracks, 25 fps and 50HZ 1920x1080 resolution). There must surely be some subtle attribute difference and I hope that if I can get my pre-processing step in Windows to do it then I won't need the Offline Conversion in DSM and won't have to deal with the resulting wasted space use (duplicated files) and name changes (Video Station adds "(high)" to the file names stored in the video folder). Shotcut has many options for export file creation so if I can experiment there I hope this is achievable. I still don't know why its "so hard" though (a lack of flexibility on synology video players it seems).

to be continued. Comments welcome but enough of recommending other video players please

ps I have read all the Synology help and knowledge info I can on these formats and the Video Station requirements, but they seem superficial and do not go to the level of detail needed. And the new 4K help notes are similarly high level specs, and not useful to me as I don't have any 4K equipment. I suspect that the "darknebula" wrapper and it predecessor (by Alex someone) mentioned in other posts in this forum do similar video packaging after they have worked out "what works" for VS and DS video. But as I said, I am not really comfortable adding unofficial patches that have to be regularly reapplied if I can avoid it. Another alternative would be if Video Station could auto-convert new files when they arrive, but that would only be useful if it got rid of the original after successful conversion. These videos suck up disk space as it is without having two of them sitting there.

 

[fredbert]

[looks you posted while I was writing, ignore the bits that are now irrelevant]

I find it hard to think that performance is a problem but will have a look.

I wasn't meaning that the performance is topping out, rather that resource consumption is [much] more when playing back these problematic files versus others. The inference being that transcoding is probably happening and that VS browser/DS video doesn't have builtin support for these exact file formats/encoding parameters.

I did look at Plex maybe a year ago but it looks complex, you have to pay for it (I believe) and the comments indicated it was really intended for paid streaming sites far more than home network ones. I took away that your own content in Plex was a afterthought.

I use Plex exclusively with content from my NAS. As I mentioned, the same content that VS and AS are indexed to use. I even have Plex with read access to the /photo, the shared space of Synology Photos. I see they have added access to some external content but I never use it.

The Plex Pass is needed if you are wanting hardware transcoding (something VS does for free), and having managed users. One of the best parts of Plex vs VS is the ability to bulk tag rather that correct tagging file by file. Oh and I found VS would default to always showing subtitles, if they were present, so I had to make the font transparent (I used to embed subtitle tracks for use in iTunes/Home Sharing)... Plex handles this better.

Plex may be worth looking at again, I think some of the apps have become free for more features.


I remember others on the forum have used Infuse and have been really happy with it.

 

[Coop777]

for streaming internal on your home network, Plex is free. For external streaming, there's a subscription fee.

 

[Telos]

for streaming internal on your home network, Plex is free.

... but, without PlexPass, dynamic hardware transcoding is disabled, and there is a modest fee for mobile apps.

 

[Mobbus]

Thanks all for your help everyone. I will keep testing various mp4 variants (I said MK4 in my first post which I think is a throwback to my computer work in the 80's where there was a quasi-4GL language named Mark4!) to see what works best. Will create a short file to speed everything up because the encoding times are driving me nuts.
After announcing above that everything was great now, I did find a quirk with the Offline Converted files. While the video is correct, the audio track has been timeshifted by between 1 and just over 2 seconds (the audio is running behind the video so the mouths stop moving and scene cuts before the audio finishes). I can't explain this although Shotcut does show in the "more file information" that the "start_pts" and "start_time" of the video and audio tracks on the original source file are slightly different by possibly a similar amount (see screen prints below). These small differences may be causing the timeshift? If anyone knows a way (e.g. preferably in shotcut or in ffmpeg) to have these baseline attributes perfectly aligned then I'd appreciate it. I tried finding help in the Shotcut documentation but failed. These files while called "mpg" files out of my TV Tuner card are possibly closer to TS (transport stream) files that true MPEG files. Once again while Video Station is having hiccups, other players and utilities (like shotcut) don't have the same issues.

 

[Coop777]

a/v synch issue. What program are you using to transcode?

 

[Mobbus]

a/v synch issue. What program are you using to transcode?

I am using Shotcut which seems to use ffmpeg under the covers. The the synch problem arises when I re-encode the shotcut file with Video Station Offline Conversion.

I am wondering if adding a brief video with generated keyframes at the start of the file in Shotcut that has both video and audio tracks could make the apparent start point differences go away. Something to try.

 

[Telos]

Use FFmpeg from the command line and see if there is a difference

 

[Coop777]

I have found Handbrake to be a good tool for transcoding.

 

[DoorKnocker]

Unfortunately, DS Video app on TVs are having a little bit different behaviour, this guy explains everything here : FAQ

You could also maybe give a try to his patcher (and unpatch if not working) : GitHub - AlexPresso/VideoStation-FFMPEG-Patcher: Patcher to enable DTS, EAC3 and TrueHD support to Synology VideoStation (from DSM 6.2 to DSM 7.0 and above ; ffmpeg4, 5, 6 ready)

I'm using it myself and everything works fine on both laptop and TV (Samsung TV)