Info Synology's "Incompatibility" List ... Yikes!

[WST16]

Man, those are more specs than I care to read. Good luck with that. However, the big question:
Is it as “streamlined” as Synology’s

 

[jeyare]

Man, those are more specs than I care to read. Good luck with that. However, the big question:
Is it as “streamlined” as Synology’s

Sorry, I forgot for the simple comparison by nice vs awful

 

[kiriak]

Man, those are more specs than I care to read. Good luck with that. However, the big question:
Is it as “streamlined” as Synology’s

no it is not as streamlined, but in some cases can be less restricted and finally easier

I have a 218+. A recent update of Cloudstation, made my client in Fedora PC incompatible.
This Fedora PC is my main computer (dual boot with win 10) and where all my important data exist.
Now I have no Backup of this PC to the Synology.

I have a really old PC with a a single 500 HDD as a TrueNAS just for playing. The OS is installed on a 32 GB usb stick.
I took me a few minutes to setup Back In Time to backup my Fedora to TrueNAS (only way to do is via SSH rsync).

I tried hard to do the same with my Synology (which is my main NAS) without success. I am a noob and cannot find why.

I'm looking to buy a HP Microserver Gen10+ and go on. I got tired from Synology's non support for desktop Linux with clients.
At present only PhotoStation remained to keep me with Synology. And it seems it will not last long (because of DSM 7 etc.)

 

[WST16]

Thank you for your thoughts. I was being silly on a Sunday. It’s an old joke

Synology is a “streamlining” company 🤣🤣🤣

https://www.synology.com/en-global/search?q=Streamline

www.synoforum.com

 

[jeyare]

@kiriak
I called it schizophrenic decision-making in Synology a long time ago, because the right-hand doesn't seem to know what the left is doing. The reason why 2 years of postponing the new DSM and so much preparation for the big entry turned out to be embarrassing, at least for me.

-- post merged: 29. Aug 2021 --

Thank you for your thoughts. I was being silly on a Sunday. It’s an old joke

Synology is a “streamlining” company 🤣🤣🤣

https://www.synology.com/en-global/search?q=Streamline

www.synoforum.com

I remembered your post exactly when I first read it here. Enjoy your life!

 

[Robbie]

Challenge accepted

12bay 2U rackmount NAS for data science or 8k video editing - Simple comparison:
4x drives in RAID0, 1x RAID1 for system, 1xRAID5(4xdrives) , 1x spare for RAID1 + 1x Spare for RAID5 = 12 bay config

- 2U 12Bay NAS rackmount chassis, incl. Redundant power supply

What 12-Bay chassis is that?

️

 

[jeyare]

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still not a final candidate - need more research. Still not finished with my calculation re SAS platform.

​

 

[jeyare]

For those who like order in the data:

And here's the second major problem of the current Synology business model - if you don't want to use large disk capacities because you have your operating model tuned, you'll pay extra for the capacity = they don't have smaller disks:

My node setup is about:
RAID1 - expected capacity 500GB netto (2x500GB SATA) + one spare sisk
RAID0 - expected capacity 4TB netto (4x1TB SAS)
RAID5 - expected capacity 9TB netto (4x3TB SAS) + one spare sisk

But the smallest SAS drive from Syno is about 8TB!!

Then Total cost difference for the single node is about 7,114.49 EUR. Great.

Not to mention that we are comparing two different models, where the custom build has a level of higher performance and can be operated without restrictions. Plus, there is fundamentally different upgradability.

 

[WST16]

Out of curiosity (if you don’t mind me asking) and if you’re replacing all the Synology NAS devices as you said, how many are they?
It looks like this is a much complex solution with custom builds, water cooling and TrueNAS, aren’t you worried that whoever is going to run this will have a hard time keeping up? Or is it you who’s running the whole show? What happens if you decide to leave and someone else takes over? According to the Jeyare principle (95/5%), this might not turn up very favorable for whoever inherits all of it. But then again, what do I know!

 

[jeyare]

Out of curiosity (if you don’t mind me asking) and if you’re replacing all the Synology NAS devices as you said, how many are they?
It looks like this is a much complex solution with custom builds, water cooling and TrueNAS, aren’t you worried that whoever is going to run this will have a hard time keeping up? Or is it you who’s running the whole show? What happens if you decide to leave and someone else takes over? According to the Jeyare principle (95/5%), this might not turn up very favorable for whoever inherits all of it. But then again, what do I know!

OFC, this is not a miracle pill for every single operation setup.

Two point of view:

1. Syno HW side
A. At the time of purchase, Syno HW relies on warranty conditions during the warranty period. What is OK.
B. In the event that something happens to your Syno HW, you can ask the supplier to rectify the condition during the warranty period.
C. After the warranty period, you will not exchange anything (NAS to NAS). Respectively comes (in some) self-service repair shop activities. Or you need to ask a qualified company for repair.
D. In the worst case, this cannot be fixed because it is not possible to replace the component (CPU, ...). Then all you have to do is look for a spare part (eg the whole MoBo even with the CPU) and try to replace it or buy a brand new NAS.
For the 300Eur value of the HW, it is a peanut. For the 7k Eur value of the HW, it is bad news for you.
E. Upgradeability, more power for CPU, ...? Zero.

2. Custom HW side
A. At the time of purchase, custom HW relies on warranty conditions during the warranty period. What is OK = same as for the Syno HW case.
B. In the event that something happens to your custom build HW (any part), you can ask the supplier to rectify the condition during the warranty period.
C. After the warranty period, you can change every piece of the custom build HW separately = because of elements standardization is anywhere.
D. In the worst case, you will lose just a few components. And it is easily replaceable. But what is most often HW error on the NAS = MoBo component or CPU (remember for the Intel case).
E. Upgradeability - as you wish.

Then you have to think about the economic efficiency of the operation. Just like they did in Backblaze. They use their own custom build HW. Why? Because they counted it.
So I have two options:
- I have enough time and I will assemble such NAS box in half a day because it is a peanut for me - somewhere here you will find what I studied.
- I don't have enough time - then I will ask an external source for help (plenty of resources anywhere) . The 7000 Euros of savings on one HW is worth it. It will definitely not cost me more than +10%.
Maintenance? Dtto.
btw.

Btw - I also use the custom build for complex statistical operations in R. The older one worked for me for almost 10 years and I gradually renewed the elements in it (MoBo, CPU, GPU,...).

This isn't about small home NAS.

 

[fredbert]

While I find this fascinating it’s probably wandered off the original subject. Would be a good one for the Lounge, as would thoughts on alternative vendors’ approaches.

Is there another reason for the revised compatibility list? Has time been freed to refresh lists of unavailable parts; have issues been experienced from some 3rd party parts that affect the integrity of the chassis; has the free support model become untenable.

I try to be fair and see things not only from my position, but it would be good to have feedback from Synology. If they want to change their portfolio’s position to various markets or shift to a pure appliance model then they could say so. But guesswork on various Internet forums will only cause potential (and current) customers to reconsider their purchasing plans.

 

[Robbie]

In my simplistic view, if a regular PC motherboard manufacturer discovered that it didn't work with more than 1 brand of SATA drive it would acknowledge it as a bug and update the firmware pronto!

Synology NASes are nothing more than a collection of low-end, older & established PC parts. We know from reading the linux changes that they are deliberately breaking compatibility and using it to direct the end-user to buy drives and RAM through Synology alone with a dizzying price mark-up.

They know what they are doing, they don't care if it runs against various market laws and have gambled that the money flowing in will more than compensate for the market-share loss or possible legal repercussions. White-collar crime at its best.

 

[AdrianEarnshaw]

I really do think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I spent a little time looking at the DS models of their 20 & 21series models. Most have no incompatible drives, with the worst being 1 or 2.

The incompatibly becomes more marked in the RS series models. For now, your normal home user seems to be okay. Emphasis on the 'for now'

 

[fredbert]

The incompatibly becomes more marked in the RS series models. For now, your normal home user seems to be okay. Emphasis on the 'for now'

It's that unknowing that's a concern: depending on the person this can swing from blasé to full-on conspiracy.

 

[Rusty]

I have some inside info on this. In short, as @AdrianEarnshaw said (and I mentioned before), this will not happen so aggressively on the DS lineup (no plans to force syno drives). So no need to panic. RS lineup will be and is affected by this and the company will continue on this path.

So if you are looking into RS segment (or higher), get ready to pay for their drives as well.

 

[WST16]

What will happen to the current RS servers with “incompatible” drives, are they going to self-destruct
Will they let them live in piece or keep nagging them to move to “compatible” drives?

Asking for a friend

 

[Rusty]

Will they let them live in piece or keep nagging them to move to “compatible” drives?

This. It will work but there will be nagging, but nothing will explode.

 

[jeyare]

While I find this fascinating it’s probably wandered off the original subject. Would be a good one for the Lounge, as would thoughts on alternative vendors’ approaches.

Is there another reason for the revised compatibility list? Has time been freed to refresh lists of unavailable parts; have issues been experienced from some 3rd party parts that affect the integrity of the chassis; has the free support model become untenable.

I try to be fair and see things not only from my position, but it would be good to have feedback from Synology. If they want to change their portfolio’s position to various markets or shift to a pure appliance model then they could say so. But guesswork on various Internet forums will only cause potential (and current) customers to reconsider their purchasing plans.

do not hesitate to switch the topic to a new thread. Order must be kept.

 

[WST16]

but nothing will explode.

Hmm. Support might send you an email when you complain:
“customer” the next time you see the message about drive incompatibility, please help us press the FIX INCOMPATIBILITY button. Then BOOM, no more NAS and no more “customer”

 

[jeyare]

Must agree, 95% of users will pay for it, nothing dramatic will happen. Because this is the share of the DS platforms.