Info Synology's "Incompatibility" List ... Yikes!

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Info Synology's "Incompatibility" List ... Yikes!

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We buy Synology's high-end boxes (RPxs and the like), and honestly I'm already looking for different suppliers. We're looking at prices for Synology drives that are 60% more than other HDD suppliers (8TB Seagate, $200, 8TB Syno $322?!?!?). This is unworkable. We're not paying 60% more for storage just because Synology doesn't want to do the extra software/design work to make their units compatible with the bulk of the drive industry, or just wants to squeeze us for more money.
 
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I think it's 2nd reason (squeeze more money). There is no reason why would SAME device (like DS 1821+ vs RS2421+) with same hardware (MB/CPU/RAM..) require different HDDs due to format (Desktop vs Rack mount). This is pure forced limitation by Synology. And they don't even have full spectrum (like 2,3,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18 TB) drive sizes either.
 
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Ram limitations….. Drive limitations…..

What is next? Yearly charge for Support?
 
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there is no reason why would SAME device (like DS 1821+ vs RS2421+) with same hardware (MB/CPU/RAM..) require different HDDs due to format (Desktop vs Rack mount).
The only half-way plausible reason I can think of is heat. The rackmount units have the drives crammed together pretty tight, while the desktop units have quite a bit of space between the drives. On the other hand, most rackmount units are in a temperature-controlled environment with tons of air-flow while desktop units are a mixed bag. Either way I think Synology should simply publish their requirements and leave it up to the user.
 

Telos

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The only half-way plausible reason I can think of is heat
The reason for the drive compatibility differences between the DS1821+ and the RS2421+, is likely because Synology tested different sets of drives in the two devices. Nothing more.

Now if Synology had the same drive shown as compatible in one unit and incompatible in the other, then we would have something to discuss. That's not what we see here. The absence of a drive model, only means it was untested.
 
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Well but if is not on compatibility list then it puts warning message and some functions do not work - right ?
 

Telos

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Well but if is not on compatibility list then it puts warning message and some functions do not work - right ?
Incorrect. Unless you have a fancy-schmansy sooper-dooper high-end model, it just warns you that your drive is not on your unit's compatibility list. You can ignore that warning and all functions work. For the fancy-schmansy sooper-dooper high-end models, you are blocked from using the drive entirely. Or so rumors tell us.

Synology to enforce use of validated disks in enterprise NAS boxes


That said, Synology can deny tech support if your issue can be tied back to the hard drive.
 
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Hmm ok so that's a little better than i thought when I've read that article on Blackvoid. So that applies only for RS/xeon models ?

It said this for RA XS/XS+ models (Synology HDD compatibility policy explained) and i thought it's for ALL RS models starting with 2021:

*Usable only when drives are migrated from a pre-policy device

DSM demeanor depending on the HDD definition​

Depending on the type of drive that DSM will detect you can expect different outcomes from both DSM itself and Synology support if you will ever need it.

DSM with unverified drives

  • Any unverified drive’s status would show unverified
  • Warnings will be displayed when selecting unverified drives to create a storage pool
  • Storage pools with any unverified drives would show a danger status
  • DSM will send warning emails about unverified drives
  • Removes the display of certain drive information:
    Allocation status
    Bad sector count
    Temperature
    Serial number
    4K native HDD
 
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For the fancy-schmansy sooper-dooper high-end models, you are blocked from using the drive entirely.
If this is correct, does it not apply to older units? I just installed some 8TB Seagate drives that are not on the list (but not listed as incompatible either) into a RS3614RPxs and it gave a warning when making them part of the storage pool, but they seem to work fine. Even shows the Ironwolf logo and "Ironwolf Health" tab under Health Info.

My concern is that we're considering purchasing RS3621RPxs's, the newer version of the 3614 above, and the drives may not work with it (and Synology drives are MUCH more expensive). Can anyone confirm?
cap1.png
 

Telos

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My concern is that we're considering purchasing RS3621RPxs's, the newer version of the 3614 above, and the drives may not work with it (and Synology drives are MUCH more expensive). Can anyone confirm?
I would contact Synology for an answer. Drive locking is a volatile topic. For your future unit, only HAT units are "compatible" (12TB, 14TB). Non-HAT drives are limited to 4TB. But locking is not fully addressed.

Here's an interesting related thread
 

Rusty

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If this is correct, does it not apply to older units? I just installed some 8TB Seagate drives that are not on the list (but not listed as incompatible either) into a RS3614RPxs and it gave a warning when making them part of the storage pool, but they seem to work fine. Even shows the Ironwolf logo and "Ironwolf Health" tab under Health Info.

My concern is that we're considering purchasing RS3621RPxs's, the newer version of the 3614 above, and the drives may not work with it (and Synology drives are MUCH more expensive). Can anyone confirm?
View attachment 4875
The policy applies only to models after January 2021. Reason why it all works on your 3614. On top of this, not all models will be effected. XS+ and better class models are gonna be locked in. This will apply to both RS.SA,FS, UC and some DS models (that are XS+).

Also, there are some models that are similar in spec but come in both DS and RS form factor. Some also have restrictions (RS), vs no restrictions for the DS segment. So atm, in this transition period of new models coming out, its a bit of a circus.

Best to consult directly, or test out if possible before purchase.

Bottom line is that DS models for the most part will not be effected with this new policy, but going higher end, you will have to consider getting Syno or compatible high end drives that are on the official list.
 

Rusty

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I've read that article on Blackvoid. So that applies only for RS/xeon models ?
As it is stated on the article, yes. Most if not all of the RS, SA, FS, UC and some DS models that are XS+
 
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Well that is confusing part to me, 'coz RS2421+ is not XS model and it has same hardware as RS1221+ (Ryzen 1500B, 4GB RAM...).
BUT RS2421+ has only three 4TB HDDs (one Toshiba and two Seagate) on the list, rest is only Synology HDDs only while RS1221+ has all the various WDReds, Seagte Ironwolf, IronWolfPro and many more.

That's why it seems "forced" by Synology to me.
 

Rusty

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Well that is confusing part to me, 'coz RS2421+ is not XS model and it has same hardware as RS1221+ (Ryzen 1500B, 4GB RAM...).
BUT RS2421+ has only three 4TB HDDs (one Toshiba and two Seagate) on the list, rest is only Synology HDDs only while RS1221+ has all the various WDReds, Seagte Ironwolf, IronWolfPro and many more.

That's why it seems "forced" by Synology to me.
Yep on that one I agree is a bit confusing. Guess this will not be the last grey area scenario until most models are refreshed. Even then models like these will still be a tricky case that will need clarification on what drives will be supported.
 
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Same goes for DS2422+, only one WD drive 4TB on the list and rest is Synology only so it seems they are slowly forcing it to everything except smaller NAS units regardless of being XS, RS or DS.
 

Rusty

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Same goes for DS2422+, only one WD drive 4TB on the list and rest is Synology only so it seems they are slowly forcing it to everything except smaller NAS units regardless of being XS, RS or DS.
yep 3622, and 2422, are in the 12bay range but DS model. Looks like those models are in scope more for snoy branded drives.
 
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I was eyeing a future 6-8 drive machine. But with these antics and the DSM7 downgrade, I may opt for a NUC with an attached disk array if I can't get support because my HDD has the incorrect firmware build or manufacturing site, or my RAM has the incorrect sticker.

It's also peculiar how Synology turned against Ironwolf after adding their health checks to DSM. Now we find Ironwolf models among the "incompatible".

Just FYI... but this thread has gained considerable traction over on Reddit.

I started with this setup - Burly enclosures esata connected via a PCI-E multiplexer card. The limitation of that setup, and I'm guessing much has changed since 2015 is that in Windows, the only way to create an array was via software RAID and only RAID 0 to be able to utilize storage. I ended up mirroring 2 of them for a number of years before deciding that Synology was a better longer term solution. I do like the NUC and have two of them running on my home network.

I'm to a point with IT at home especially that I want a vendor supported solution that just works. Thus far, Syno hasn't impacted me to the point where I'd switch.
 
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RS3614RPxs, DS1513+, DS713+ (x3),DS216+II (x2)
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The policy applies only to models after January 2021. Reason why it all works on your 3614. On top of this, not all models will be effected. XS+ and better class models are gonna be locked in. This will apply to both RS.SA,FS, UC and some DS models (that are XS+).

Also, there are some models that are similar in spec but come in both DS and RS form factor. Some also have restrictions (RS), vs no restrictions for the DS segment. So atm, in this transition period of new models coming out, its a bit of a circus.
I was able to get an official answer from tech support:
  • Drives listed on the incompatible list for a NAS will not be able to be used in that NAS in any way unless migrated from another Synology NAS.
  • If a drive is not listed in either the compatible or incompatible section then it is considered unverified. These drives can be used but will display a warning while they are in the NAS.
  • Both unverified and incompatible drives will not be able to display bad sector count, temperature, serial number, and other SMART fields.
Most of which we already knew, but it's nice to have an official reassurance that even on high-end RackStation units (this was specifically about the RS3621RPxs), as long as you don't use any of the drives on the incompatible list, the unit will except the drives.
 

jeyare

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Both unverified and incompatible drives will not be able to display bad sector count, temperature, serial number, and other SMART fields.
😂
I would like to to translate this Synology statement:

Dear customer,
just like every devices vendor ( datacenter storage platforms, NAS, computers, ...) which use storage elements (hdd, ssd), we try to monitor the health status of these elements. Like big players: Pure Storage, NetApp, IBM, HP, Dell, Hitachi, Lenovo or the SME players TrueNas, or the SoHo players Qnap, Asustor, Buffalo ... at every possible OS (servers, desktops).
We use worldwide open source standard for this purpose = smartmontools, just like every single vendor listed above. If you use other elements that are not on our compatibility or unverified list, we will not allow you to see that few health check data provided be us to GUI of DSM.

LOL


or like this:

It’s a shame. Synology treats customers like stupid sheeps. 👏

No one stops you to use the smartctl from CLI or integrated by Telegraf (or diff snmp handler) or another one solution described above. No one! Even for more information that Synology provides by the DSM GUI.
 

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